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7/12/2025 1:18:44 PM
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Post final shape has been a kick in the face to people like myself that enjoyed crafting. Bungie has pretty much abandoned crafting because so many people complained into oblivion about it “ruining the loot grind”.
I would not be surprised if the new raid or destination weapons aren’t craftable. Which sucks because bungie stopped making seasonal weapons craftable and all the raids in the game currently have their loot craftable now.
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Oh absolutely, but its important to remember that the complaints about "ruining the loot grind" were valid, it effectively removed the loot grind from the game but not just because of the red-border method but because of how easy it was to get red-borders. Players were encouraged by the game to spend more time in a menu screen pulling engrams like a slot machine only looking for a red bordered weapon rather than playing the game for loot. I'm gonna go on a little tangent about the new loot grind so bare with me. While I'm going to assume all weapons releasing next week wont be craftable, I dont think the loot chase will feel as bad as it used to. The old core game was to play the newest, fixed activity to death until you got your weapon patterns and then left (thats a little reductive but in general was the loop) the activities themselves didn't really matter and because of that meant the game discouraged you from wanting to play Destiny for reasons outside of getting loot. An issue I often ran into was if I wanted to try out a new build I didn't have anywhere to test it that would reward me for my time, all I had were old 'played to death' activites. With this new system the loot grind will be implemented alongside a progression system that is contained all within the portal. While it may take you a while to get the roll you're after from bad RNG, you're also progressing the power grind and unlocking harder tiers of activites with more modifiers to customise them with. The core game isn't just going to be about grinding the newest, fixed activity anymore, it'll be more focused on pushing yourself up a skill ladder, experimenting with new builds and stress testing your existing ones, across a selection of activites that can all be modified and scaled in difficulty, All-the-while getting drops of your desired weapons and armour. To me the frustration of RNG, which i absolutely feel sometimes, (I like it but theres only so long I can go without getting what I want) will be alleviated because of how the new core game is not just focused on loot but also challenge customisation, skill progression and build craft expertise. Of course there are some players who just don't want to deal with RNG at all which is completely understandable, again, crafting would fit perfectly into this tiered loot system without compromising its integrity, I don't understand why it's being left behind. But at least this new system will readjust players intention with Destiny away from just the loot and focus us more into the moment-to-moment gameplay.
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This here en lies the issue. You have 2 types of people the ones that love crafting because it made the loot chase more bearable so we can focus on other things instead of being tied to an activity for days sometimes weeks on end. Then you have the others that love the perma grind because it makes that dopamine hit all the better. Bungie has 2 sides to juggle. I thought crafting was in a great spot because only seasonal and raid weapons were craftable which made sense. Seasonal content rotates out so crafting rewarded players that played the season to collect the patterns. Raids can only be ran 3 times a week and or you wait a year for it to enter the weekly featured raid. People could still grind trials, Gms and dungeons for non crafted rolls. I thought it was a fair balance of crafting and non crafted loot. I’m sure you heard all the arguments for it but regardless Bungie tried to balance it out but now they said to hell with it, and basically chose a single side giving the other the middle finger. This new system is kicking the grind up to 20 (someone calculated 90 hours of grind to get end game ready). That is insane and I do not find enjoyment in that which has stayed my hand in even buying the next expansion. And like you meantioned I don’t want to deal with horrible rng (and trust me my rng has been god aweful this season) I don’t like farming for hours on end only to delete every single thing I ground for. That’s why I wish Bungie would not abandon crafting all together because then I can atleast enjoy something without fear of having to grind forever. I don’t need the best T5 loot to be happy I am perfectly fine running a t1 or t2 crafted weapon. But Bungie clearly chose a side.
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Edited by Lleuad: 7/12/2025 3:18:07 PMI agree, hence my confusion. I don't think Bungie have to juggle the two sides, unless im stupid and am missing something, but to me the two can co-exist in the same system, not split between different activities. I partially agree with your stance on the different places crafting was implemented but from my side that didn't feel like a well tuned balance. The games meta and focus was defined by whatever the most recent activity that released was, this happens within the sandbox (hunters being strong last year because of the witness and artifact, and now titans being strong because of dungeons... [i]and the artifact[/i]) and the loot chase. If the new thing released was a seasonal activity, then I was stuck clicking for red-borders in the vendor screen, and if it was a dungeon you would've been stuck staring at the wrong roll in front of a chest (dungeons especially being the most stingy of all the RNG chases). You're right in saying i have things like GM's however I would like to add that they're only ever updated with 2 weapons at most so there isn't much of a grind there, and trials isn't really my cup of tea personally. To your point about the increase in grind, I think its important to apply the right context. Its a different power system than what we're used to, its not about regrinding timegated pinnacles just to get back to the same fixed activity (gm's) anymore. You can freely grind at your own pace, play a larger selection of activites etcetera, as i mentioned before, switch to PVP on occasion, play arms week or whatever the recent event is, play the new raid or dungeon, and all of that will progress you on the power grind. Playing Destiny, will push you along your power grind. (excluding older activities and stuff) We're just used to doing the things in rotation, that bungie tell us to play, in order to progress a tiny bit on one or two weapon or armour slots and then having to put the game down because there nothing else to do until next weekly reset. Also, this might be a hot take, 90 hours to complete the grind is quite reasonable. 5 hours a week will get you 60 hours of grind in 3 months, over half way. And by then Ash and Iron will release with new content to play, a boost to power progression and an increase to the power cap (im assuming the 90 hours estimate has included that power increase), with then another 3 months before Renegades. 90 hours over a 6 month period is very flexible. It's possible I've misunderstood this though. All of this btw is optional, you dont have to grind up to 550 power if you dont want to. I want to stress, I'm not saying that to dissmiss your argument, (I have my reservations about wanting to play harder difficulties but not being at the appropriate power. Especially just after seasonal resets) if you feel checked out from the grind you can just stop. I think the current system has made us think we need to 'complete' the grind because of how its design had little respect for our time, and its also in part because we're so used to always being max power, and seasonal resets just raise the bar slightly. The new system is far more flexible than that.
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Yes crafting and grinding can coexist but they need to balance it out so everyone can be happy (crafting should not be a catch up mechanic idc what anyone says in the argument because if it’s gonna be implemented then it should be done off the rip). I’ll use the revenant as an example on they could have done crafting in a way that everyone could enjoy. The main seasonal weapons can be non craftable but the reprised season of the splicer weapons could have been craftable with the raid weapons. This would give the grinders and crafters something to chase. Then when Bungie reprises the revenant weapons in some far off season those can become craftable with updated perk pools giving the crafters something to chase and by that point the grinders have moved on to the next chase. That’s why I hate the seasonal model more than anything in this game period. The activity of that season is the primary focus forcing everyone to grind that activity into oblivion and dictating the meta with the current artifact. Plus worst of all that activity gets removed so it’s half baked. That’s why I wish they would focus on developing and fleshing out areas already in the game for seasons instead of releasing reskins of activities. (Court of blades was the first activity in a long time I genuinely enjoyed but the amount of loot you got after beating 13 bosses was not worth it) I hate the long form content we keep getting like the nether and contest of elders. Yeah I get Gms and trials are not updated as often but the point was they’re still able to be ground in for loot that isn’t craftable. I hate trials with a passion and I still grind it for adepts. I barely farm dungeons anymore since they are so stingy. I will disagree with your points on the 90hour grind sounding reasonable because I’m not fan of soft resets like this especially when light level is now going to be a barrier to entry and that’s it. Most activities now will have set caps going forward meaning you won’t be able to over level like in the past. I know not all activities will have force level caps but still since bungie has basically applied contest to most activities or removed level advantages it’s just a barrier to enter at this point. It’s grind for the sake of grind. Plus we have to regrind stuff every dlc release but not to this magnitude. If people enjoy it great but I don’t.
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Okay... I dont understand what you're arguing for or against here. the point of my original post was about how crafting can work perfectly with the new tiered loot system. you're saying they should remain separate to satisfy both demographics? thats what it was before and it only satisfied crafters. "The main seasonal weapons can be non craftable but the reprised season of the splicer weapons could have been craftable " This is how it was implemented in the past. Echoes had craftable seasonal weapons and rng Dawn weapons, Season of the Deep was the same. and again, its only satisfied crafters. This is where you began to lose me "That’s why I hate the seasonal model more than anything in this game period. The activity of that season is the primary focus forcing everyone to grind that activity into oblivion and dictating the meta with the current artifact." Yea, thats what I was saying in my previous comment, are you saying this because you agree or disagree. And on a side note Edge of Fate will help fix this. for the reasons I mentioned in that previous comment. "I hate the long form content we keep getting like the nether and contest of elders." The new core game will help this. For example, The Coil and Savathuns Spire are returning, the coil being one of these longer activites that you dislike (not saying that you dislike the coil specifically, just an example) you can choose to do spire instead as its shorter and get the same loot, because this new system is flexible and gives you more ways to play what you want to play. "Most activities now will have set caps going forward meaning you won’t be able to over level like in the past. I know not all activities will have force level caps but still since bungie has basically applied contest to most activities or removed level advantages it’s just a barrier to enter at this point. It’s grind for the sake of grind. Plus we have to regrind stuff every dlc release but not to this magnitude. If people enjoy it great but I don’t." I truly am trying to understand what you mean by this. A) The only activity that let you could over-level the power cap with were lost sectors, its been that way for years. Everything else has had a power delta. B) I dont understand what you mean by "a barrier to entry" thats what the old power system felt like until it was streamlined between BL to Lightfall. The new system doesnt bar you from entering activities but allows you to scale any activity in the Portal up to Ultimate difficulty if you so desire. Can you do that from the very beginning? Of course not, thats how a progression system functions, which Destiny hasn't had in a very long time. A levelling system in a video game is not gatekeeping higher levels... its progression. Remember the core grind is changing. Will this feel bad during seasonal resets, i have no idea, its what im worried about too, but it doesnt make it grind for the sake of grind, which brings me to... C) "Grind for the sake of grind" thats an incredibly reductive thing to say, and is also what the old seasonal core game was, which you just complained about. Play new activity to death for weapons then leave. But I will explain the new grind again, the new system offers tangible skill progression alongside customisable modifers to reinvigorate those boring activites you hate, and encourage buildcraft, the tiered loot is 1 part of that dance, In the old system you just complained about it was the only point and felt like you were just grinding it for the sake of new weapons and not for the joy of playing the game. Im not trying to be mean here, and i am sorry if it comes across that way, but its difficult to decipher what stance you're taking here. You like crafting, the new loot chase doesn't offer crafting which is bad, but everything else about the power grind is going to help solve the pain points you mentioned. The point of my original post was to offer feedback specifically aimed at the tiered loot part of the new power grind, i wanted to explain from a player perspective how it can coexist with crafting and does not have to be separated between weapon pools.
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Yes crafting and grinding can coexist but they need to balance it out so everyone can be happy (crafting should not be a catch up mechanic idc what anyone says in the argument because if it’s gonna be implemented then it should be done off the rip). I’ll use the revenant as an example on they could have done crafting in a way that everyone could enjoy. The main seasonal weapons can be non craftable but the reprised season of the splicer weapons could have been craftable with the raid weapons. This would give the grinders and crafters something to chase. Then when Bungie reprises the revenant weapons in some far off season those can become craftable with updated perk pools giving the crafters something to chase and by that point the grinders have moved on to the next chase. That’s why I hate the seasonal model more than anything in this game period. The activity of that season is the primary focus forcing everyone to grind that activity into oblivion and dictating the meta with the current artifact. Plus worst of all that activity gets removed so it’s half baked. That’s why I wish they would focus on developing and fleshing out areas already in the game for seasons instead of releasing reskins of activities. (Court of blades was the first activity in a long time I genuinely enjoyed but the amount of loot you got after beating 13 bosses was not worth it) I hate the long form content we keep getting like the nether and contest of elders. Yeah I get Gms and trials are not updated as often but the point was they’re still able to be ground in for loot that isn’t craftable. I hate trials with a passion and I still grind it for adepts. I barely farm dungeons anymore since they are so stingy. I will disagree with your points on the 90hour grind sounding reasonable because I’m not fan of soft resets like this especially when light level is now going to be a barrier to entry and that’s it Most activities now will have set caps going forward meaning you won’t be able to over level like in the past. I know not all activities will have force level caps but still since bungie has basically applied contest to most activities or removed level advantages it’s just a barrier to enter at this point. Plus we have to regrind stuff every dlc release but not to this magnitude. If people enjoy it great but I don’t.
