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Help - Destiny 2

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11/5/2017 6:13:52 PM
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How is banning people without just cause and proof legal?

I only ask this because I see so many PC players stating they've been banned for literally nothing. Not game manipulating, hacking, cheating or anything like this. Isn't this a form of theft? You pay your money and then, they decided you can't play their game, what you paid for anymore, even though you genuinely did nothing to warrant the ban? I'm shocked no one has tried a class action lawsuit over this if it's as bad as everyone has stated it is.
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#Help #pcsupport

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  • I'm going to copy/paste something from another thread that I responded to as it is a pretty good answer (in my own opinion anyway) as to why this is 'legal'. (As a side note, it's only legal until someone actually decides to take them to court over it and a court judge decides to say it's illegal. Contracts are legally binding unless they break laws at their heart, which Bungie's agreements do not, unless a Judge declares them otherwise, but without a Judge doing so, they're still legally binding, regardless of how people may feel they're unfair.) My C/P is as follows: Bungie Terms of Service that you agreed to https://www.bungie.net/en/View/Bungie/terms : [quote]... TERMINATION/ACCESS RESTRICTION Bungie reserves the right, in its sole discretion, to terminate your access to any or all Bungie Services and the related services or any portion thereof at any time, without notice. ...[/quote] Bungie SLA that you agreed to https://www.bungie.net/en/View/Bungie/SLA : [quote]... NOTTWITHSTANDING ANYTHING TO THE CONTRARY, YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT ONLINE SERVICES MAY BE TERMINATED IN WHOLE OR IN PART AT BUNGIE’S SOLE DISCRETION WITHOUT NOTICE TO YOU. IN CONNECTION WITH ONLINE SERVICES’ TERMINATION, YOUR ABILITY TO ACCESS, USE AND PLAY THE PROGRAM MAY BE TERMINATED IN ITS ENTIRETY, AND ANY AND ALL SERVICE PROVIDED CONTENT LICENSED TO YOU MAY BE TERMINATED. ...[/quote](take note that the capslock there is not my emphasis, it is emphasized thusly therein. If you did not agree to the conditions as stated, you could have received a refund for the game within 30 days, there's even a phone number to call to receive that refund if you do not agree with the things, but if you agreed, then you accepted, and that 30 day period is null seeing as how you agreed to them and didn't disagree with them. While you may feel that you did nothing wrong, Bungie can choose to remove your access for whatever reason they desire, even no reason at all, and you agreed to it. By having agreed to those terms, that's where the issue of 'taking it to court' breaks down. If you notice, upon receiving a ban, you may not have been told why you were banned, just that you simply were, so you can't even fight it by saying you were banned for a certain reason and you didn't do it, seeing as how no reason was given; it's hard to say you didn't do a thing when the thing isn't stated. The Banning policy even states that there are things that will get you banned; it doesn't state anywhere in that policy that those are the only things that will get you banned, it simply gives examples. It sucks to get banned, I'm sure, but there's literally nothing you can do about it. If it was an error on Bungie's part, then you have to wait until they realize it and unban you. If it was earned, then you're out of luck entirely. That's just how things are, and that's what you agreed to. End C/P. So, the only thing people can do to fight this if they do have such a big disagreement with the idea of having their ability to play the game removed is to actually file suit in the court of law and convince a Judge that Bungie doesn't have the right to remove their ability to play the game even though they agreed that Bungie has the right to remove their ability to play the game, OR they must file suit in the court of law and convince the Judge that the contract, itself, is not legal, and thus allow the person to receive their purchase price back (the damages incurred by Bungie enforcing this set of contracts). The biggest issue with convincing someone to take this to court is that their damages are only the purchase price of the game and anything related to the game. It'd be hard to convince most respectful judges of any mental anguish or the like caused by being banned from a form of entertainment. I'm not saying it can't happen, just that the probable 'reward' for actually taking Bungie to court for this will be the purchase price of the game. If a class-action suite arises, then the reward will be a set amount, and everyone within that class-action will most likely receive their purchase price, OR LESS.

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    • I'm willing to bet-based on my experiences on WoW and Diablo 3, where bot ban waves are pretty frequent-that 90% of the people coming here to the forums saying they were banned for no reason were running programs that were identified as cheat programs by Bungie, even if they weren't using them on Destiny 2. And no, it isn't theft if they ban you, even unjustly. All you ever buy when you buy a video game these days is [i]a license to play it.[/i] Everything about the game belongs to the license holder. If they decide to revoke your license, based on what they see as a violation of the ToS, barring a false positive (which does happen, in all fairness), there isn't a thing you can do. You didn't buy a game, you bought the right to play it.

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      • Take it like a MAN !!!!!!!!!! Your PC is crappy. No more PC posts in a console forum

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        • Edited by zNapSack: 11/10/2017 8:40:43 AM
          It's legal for the same reason you can ask another to leave your house. You're not required to give an explanation or state your reason for doing so. When one purchases a game they're in fact purchasing a license to play that game. They're not purchasing the game itself. Thus, it's not 'their' game. It's Bungie's game and the servers are their 'house' so to speak. One has no legal right to play the game. The license one paid for and agreed to allows them the privilege of playing the game. Therefore, when one agrees to the terms of service, which they must do in order to play, they're in effect waiving the right to arbitration or recourse of any kind and must play in accordance with the terms of service. Even if something occurs which the player is completely unaware of they're responsible nonetheless. It's the players zoo and their 'animal'. And the player is responsible for whatever their animal does, even if they're not present at the time, nor trained it to do what it did. Although it sucks to be banned and not be given a specific reason as to why they won't say because it could lead to security concerns. If a refund is issued by a retailer that is at their sole discretion.

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        • No it's not theft as they don't have to have prove to you that your cheating They made it clear what software to run and that Running ANYTHING else could result in a ban Many people are NOT cheating but they are running software that captures the stream as if they WERE cheating That is what people are mad about they want Bungo to prove they were NOT cheating They made it clear that by just running those applications you would be considered cheating

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        • Its completely legal, you accepted the terms and conditions, you violated them, so they have the right to suspend you. Period. (With you i dont actually mean you, i mean the people that got banned, unless you are one of them, then i do mean you)

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          • Terms and conditions. The people up-voting this are extremely ignorant.

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            • Stop cheating.

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            • Stop complaining and be MAN !!!!

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              • You can be banned for a multitude of reasons, either from running illegal software to change the game in your favor or by violating the EULA and/or TOS. No company in history bans people without reason. Not disclosing it is a mystery to me, I assume it has something to do with not letting people try to work around detection. If and when an accidental ban is handed out it's usually overturned.

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              • All cheaters are innocent... every single one of them. Just ask them.

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              • The real question is, how many people that get banned for actual cheating still say they did nothing.

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                • People are getting banned for running hacking/cheating software in general. It could be for another game. Bungie detecta but wont look into if its for D2 or another game. Those that use cheat tools need to remember to shut down the software completely before running D2

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                • You pay for the license to the game, not for the game itself, you violate the rules...knowingly or unknowingly doesn't matter which - you then forfeit your license.

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                • Terms and Conditions aside (because you cant sign away being a decent -blam!-ing human) - It proves Bungies lack of involvement and lack of concern on the topic letting it just dissipate into the night that bungie is incapable of being a decent company. My Friend hasnt even received a response from the multitude of forum posts. Bad Business does not get rewarded. I feel for blizzard having this Garbage company attached to their Launcher.... Blizzard would have had this problem sorted in hours. . . They would have Apologies and admitted they -blam!-ed up because they are not a petty company. Bungie Proves again they cannot play with the Big Kids. consumer trust is a big thing. I wont purchase another Bungie Game even though i am not a victim here. Their lack of customer service or care is gross. you can get better support faster replies and treated like a-blam!-ing human by most indie developers. but Bungie has no budget for a decent PR person and a customer service team that cares? pathetic. Shit Fire Bungie Company.

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                • I saw this on a reddit article before hand due to myself heavily researching upon the topic and aspect of these constant, outrageous bans. [b][/b]Unfortunately, Bungie have the right to issue a ban amid their own guidelines which you accept in order to play the game. Games nowadays including video games, apps and such force you to accept their term regulations and if you decline, you do not have access to the game. Yes, it is a nifty move from game developers and amongst us, it's outright inequality to the right of the gamer. Bungie have the right to ban and don't get me wrong, I totally disagree with this. You can fight back!Unless you pre-ordered the game, you can issue a chargeback claim in regards to your bank and get your money back! On our side, it may feel as an allegation of theft but from their perspective, you agree to their terms and regulations. Yes, they may resolve these issues separately but they do have the right as I have been firmly reiterating. [b][/b] Issue a chargeback people! Another possible interpretation or investigation which could uphold. Everyone knows we work 9-5 through the days of Mondays-Fridays. The weekend is the time where players essentially allude their gametime opportunity and maximise the time they have to progress due to the free time off work, school, college or whatever. Bungie workers don't sit there 24/7, do they? No, they do not. This frankly indicates how they have automated bots practically "auto-botting", detecting issues which are not issues like third-party software which result in an unfair ban. Therefore, bungie functions the bot to ban cheaters through the use of certain software and this is pretty much and obstacle nearly all players are facing as nearly everyone uses discord or teamspeak while playing destiny 2, hence the reason of these bans. It is not coincidential that these bans occur at 5pm, Friday until the end of the weekend, or essentially, early Monday morning. Thus, the automated bot could be unfairly banning people. Yet again, this is a theory, and I assume it isn't coincidential. Solution: [b][/b] Get a refund from your bank!

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                  • 1
                    We agreed to the ToS which gives Bungie the right to ban us basically for any reason as long as they feel it's justified. In the UK the laws actually protect people who buy and play online games, but here in the great US of A they don't.

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                  • legal? Courts don't care

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                  • #1. To play said game, you agree to a code of conduct. That is the foundation they have and you by extension. #2. You do have an argument. If you are being banned due to technology failure? That isn't your problem. Bungie is a publicly traded company and the Better Business Bureau is an argument to make and the action to take. #3. Legally speaking? No. You get banned for doing things the system built does not allow. You do not own property or rights to the system, whatever it may actually do, so you don't have any expectations to it. You simply hope the developers do their due diligence and obviously make statements with your pocket book.

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                    • Cute little legal thing called a Terms of Service that accepts a digital signature from your profile. "Press X to Accept the ToS." Included: "We reserve the right to ban you for any, or even no reason." By accepting, you have no choice but to legally accept if you get banned from your $60+ license. Remember! You don't actually own a copy of the game! You only own a license to play Bungie's game. This license it what they reserve the right to revoke for any or no reason.

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                      • Edited by CannyJack: 11/7/2017 7:47:53 PM
                        The money is in exchange for the license to run the bits they put in a specific order through a processor on a computer or console and perhaps interchange the output of those bits with other computers doing stuff. If the developer decides that the user has broken the license for running those bits through a processor, poof, no more bit-running. Except in some countries, under some circumstances. I think. I'm not a lawyer.

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                      • Get the facts, share what you know, expose them. For goodness sakes help them. https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/237799047?sort=0&page=0

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                      • If everyone who was banned could head over and answer this poll so we can get a decently accurate idea of how many people have been affected, that would be great. https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/237804076

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                      • You can always look up their resident agent in your state and file a small claims suit against them for your purchase price back. A lot of the time they'll just pay you because it costs more to pay the resident agent to defend the case.

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                        • https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/237734958?sort=0&page=0 just read it over may be some help for you

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                        • I'd take a wild guess and say that it's in the terms and conditions prompt,I often wander what I'm saying yes to in these HUGE walls of text.

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