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#feedback

Edited by Brandolier: 9/17/2015 6:38:26 PM
91

Are Golden Gun and Arc Blade outclassed and pointless now?

So, before anyone reads this and flames me, I am not whining for a nerf of either Sunbreaker or Stormcaller. I think these classes are awesome and I look forward to playing them. I am also not screaming for a buff to Gunslinger and Bladedancer. I just want to examine this critically for a second and see what people think. So, Golden gun has 3 shots (4 with Achlyophage, but that isn't carrying forward to Year 2, so let's just say 3 shots). It has hte potential for more kills with combustion. Additionally, while the aim assist on this is huge, you do actually have to score a direct hit to kill someone with it. Arc Blade has higher kill potential, but comes with the major drawback of having to actually get within range of people's shotguns and melee to score a kill (there is a range perk on Arc Blade, but it is terrible as it only travels on the ground and a simple bunny hop will avoid damage from it). [b]Compare Golden Gun to Hammer of Sol: [/b]HoS has more than three shots, you don't have to get a direct hit, and you can also perk it for combustion (in fact, there are exotic arms that can even give you this perk so you can get your hammers to heal you and still get combustion). [b]Compare Arc Blade to HoS: [/b]HoS seems to be the clear winner again. While Arc Blade doesn't have a shot limit, you realistically can't hit more people with it than you can with HoS. Additionally, HoS can be used from range, obviating Arc Blade's major limiting factor, that you frequently get freaking shotgunned to death while using it. HoS also has much better modifying perks, like the aforementioned combustion or the ability to make hammers track their targets. Additionally, with the aforementioned exotic arms you can get wildfire and the HoS combustion, making HoS like a better GG with combustion AND with Arc Blade's ability to heal you on kills. At least to me: [b]HoS appears to be functionally superior to GG and Arc Blade in virtually every way.[/b] It combines all of the benefits of BOTH Golden Gun and Arc Blade with none of their limitations or drawbacks. Now for the Warlocks: [b]Compare GG and Stormtrance:[/b] So here GG has the clear advantage of greater range, but after that Stormtrance also seems to have it in terms of kill potential. You can kill far more people, sort of like Arc Blade and HoS, and the chaining of hte lightning is more effective at multi kills than combustion on the GG. I would say this comparison is something of a draw in that the GG user would probably win the 1v1 because he just shoots the one shot necessary to kill, but ultimately I think stormtrance will compare to GG like Arc Blade did, you lose in certain scenarios but have a lot of potential, and I would still take Stormtrance over GG. [b]Arc Blade vs. Stormtrance:[/b] Here Arc blade starts to look pretty pathetic. Storm trance can roam the map just like Arc Blade, but you can kill people without being subject to Arc Blade's major weakness (just like HoS), that you don't have to move into shotgun/melee range to kill. Also, you can perk Landfall so you have a sort of "lite" version of the Fist of Havoc "oh shit button" when you activate. This perk can also be gotten through an exotic armor piece, leaving you free to perk for further chaining abilities. Frankly, This super seems to completely trounce Arc Blade in every freaking way, just like HoS. I can only conclude that, while people used to bitch about the Hunter constantly because of their ability to roam and kill with supers active (which was good, but not broken, as they lacked things the other classes had like the "oh shit button" and some truly amazing perks to modify class abilities), [b]the new classes for Warlock and Titan completely outdo the old hunter classes.[/b] So, I still love my Arc Bladers and Golden Gunners out there... but you are looking preeeettyy obsolete right now. At least, that is my take on things. EDIT:: This post is also about PvE, not just PvP. All of the listed advantages are just as applicable to PvE, maybe even more so. The HoS ability to be thrown 5-6 times, do splash damage, TRACK TARGETS or cause explosions AND HEAL the player while also granting damage reduction makes it clearly superior to GG in almost all PvE situations. I don't think I even need to explain how HoS is superior to Arc Blade in PvE, considering you don't have to suicide into stomp range to use it and it can still heal you like Arc Blade but from a safe range.

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  • Agreed, and honestly...a little sad lol, there are many things they could have done to make it equal to these two Hunter subclasses rather than trying to out do it. But hey, it Bungie wants me to not use a Hunter then so be it lol. I love my Voidlock still even though Stormlock is better via super and grenades. Personally, I do not like the Hunter having a support class, it is not the right theme for the selfish lone path type of class. Not only that, but man, Shoadow Shot is really dull compares to the SunSinger super. Self rez, increased armor, endless grenades...vs...suppressed enemies...If the Tether of Shadow Shot did DoT like Envenomed that would be pretty cool, but, alas, we are left without anything aside from a linked AoE suppression and it does not feel like a Hunter to me sadly lol..

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  • Only reason arc blade was ever the most badass was because of blink now it is really pointless the hunter jump is so slow it is like you are moving at walking speed

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  • HoS>GG>Storm Trance> everything else.

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    • Edited by DRod: 9/24/2015 5:14:39 PM
      I battled an arc blade once while in stormtrance. It ended in a draw. They're so fast they can close the gap enough that the stormtrance ticks won't kill them as fast.

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      • Nah don't agree with any if this. I've used both classes extensively and hunter GG is on same level as hammer of sol. When I pop GG its a guaranteed 3-4 kills. GG fires so fast people don't even have a chance to shoot at me. In control with combustion you can fire one shot and take out two or three people standing on a point. Hammer of sol NEEDS the damage resistance and or healing for this reason. The hammers take forever to go distance and can be dodged unlike a direct GG shot. Hammer of sol I average about the same 3-4 kills and the every so often 5-6 when an entire group is together. I've also taken down titans in their super just by sniping them in the face with a high impact sniper. Its strong, but not OP. Its meant for PVP and the titan class absolutely needed it. Blade dancer was always shit in my opinion I only ever got blade danced being caught off guard its so easy to counter them.

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      • In order to truly compare these classes you have to look at them as a whole and not just compare straight up super damage. If you do that HoS is probably the clear winner. It's all about the different strategic options that a class has, such as perks, grenades and melee. They are all designed to be different. Strategically speaking I think night stalker has more options than the other classes. But great analysis though!

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        • Edited by Prof Sheitbag: 9/24/2015 5:34:01 PM
          Bungie hates hunters for some reason. Titans and Warlocks get all the love. We get one exotic for the void subclass, and that gives us the dodge ability for free. Stormcallers and Sunbreakers get all the love with the new exotics. But that is fine, Bungie. I will continue with the underdog class and maybe, someday, you will give us something worth while like you seem to love to do with the other two classes....

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          • I've made this same comment on multiple other treads discussing the nature of hunter supers against warlock andtitan supers. You cannot compare Hunter Supers to any other super. It does not even function like that. Hammer of Sol has more in common with Stormtrance than Arc Blade or Golden Gun. It has everything to do with class dynamics. Hunter Supers directly reward skill and planning. Stormtrance and Hammer of Sol do not. In PvE, a Gunslinger still has the highest single target attack in the game with Celestial Nighthawk, which can deal precision damage for around 15-20k. Hammer of Sol, while powerful cannot match that with any current exotics. Same goes for Stormtrance. Arc Blade with Khepri's Sting active can melee for upwards of 10k when attack from behind, which is about on par with Hammer of Sol or Stormtrance going all out. Your super is only as good as you are.

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          • Each super is supposed to be different noob

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          • Nah I can't get used to smoke bomb. I'll happily take my trip mines and throwing knife in pvp

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          • Bumpfortruth

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          • No hammer of sol is op

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            • [quote]At least to me: HoS appears to be functionally superior to GG and Arc Blade in virtually every way. It combines all of the benefits of BOTH Golden Gun and Arc Blade with none of their limitations or drawbacks.[/quote] I don't agree with most this at all.. First of all, I don't get the comparison of HoS to Arc Blade. HoS is ranged, Arc Blade is melee. You can't compare a melee and a ranged super, that's the same as saying snipers have more advantages over long sights than shotguns.. obviously that's the point. The big point though is the second sentence. "It combines all of the benefits of BOTH Golden Gun and Arc Blade with none of their limitations or drawbacks." That is just simply not true. 1 benefit that I can say right now, for each Hunter class, is for GG, there is no bullet drop. You point (with assistance) click and get a kill. There's no trajectory like HoS hammers, there's no travel time, pull the trigger, get a kill. It is a common player characteristic to aim their reticle where they think players are going to appear. (For example, you don't run around looking at the ceiling or the floor, you look about chest height as you run.) The argument is that HoS has a chance to miss due to bullet fall off, whereas GG will hit every time. For Bladedancers, in a single word, modifiers. There is no modifier that increases ranged damage, but there is one that increases melee damage (Brawler). That is most certainly not a drawback for blade dancers. I remember doing PoE and our hunter would purposely switch to bladedancer JUST because of this perk. He was able to 1 hit most of the adds, and it made that room much easier. I specifically remember him 1 hitting yellow health bar adds when Arc burn and Brawler were active. There are most definitely times when hunters supers are still preferred (Arc + brawler). I don't think you did a fair comparison of all the possibilities for each class.

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            • They all have their place imo, in the raid I found myself constantly swapping between subclasses for certain fights and instances.

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            • They aren't so bad in comparison with Ward of Dawn :)

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            • Golden Gun still kills people in one hit. Blade dance still mows through groups of people. It's not the tool, it's how you use it.

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            • Sunbreaker literally takes a shit on every other subclass of every other character in pvp. Bungie decided with the 2.0 update that it is, in fact, hammer time.

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            • Yes and so is striker ,defender, voidwalker, and sun singer the new subclasses beat the old ones i think thats what bungie wanted

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            • Landfall isn't as effective as you think. If you're close enough to damage someone with it, it's close enough to be killed. Furthermore, if someone is close enough to use Stormtrance on you, you are close enough to shotgun them to death. It's happened to me various times, even when I'm as far back as can be while still hiring someone. Each class has its own strengths and weaknesses. Please don't entertain the whiners by acting as if any one class is now outclassed. People will always pick the subclass that fits them best. I've been killed by just as many GG's as I have been by Sunbreaker since TTK dropped.

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            • Eh, I'd say both are still valid. Bladedancer has alternate attacks and abilities such as invisibility, and that ranged shockwave thingy, in addition to excellent mobility, and a massive damage reduction. You may have to get within melee range, but kills are instantaneous. Stormcaller moves slower and doesn't get a damage reduction, but receives ranged, collateral damage capabilities with a slower kill time.

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            • Edited by WhiskeyFiend: 9/24/2015 2:58:54 PM
              Blade dancer and gunslinger are still viable pvp Id argue GG actually edges out HoS in pvp. As soon as you hear a golden gun shot you are dead, HoS has travel time allowing you to dodge it/counter Id also point out that bladedancer is a 1 hit kill vs stormtrance that has too tick twice. Outside this instance I agree entirely with your summary.

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            • Pve side yes on both. Shadowshot is simply too good. Tether shared damage is phenomenal invis smoke is really all the invis you need so you can keep reviving the titans that keep dying trying to melee the boss. The other subclasses simply aren't that great in pve. Pvp side: I don't like shadow shot. It's not like it's useless because I've seen some great tethers happen to both me and to opponents but I just really still enjoy bladedancer for pvp. It has more counters than ever before and it's impossible to kill a sunbreaker in bladedance but damn it I'm gonna kill one of them and my codpiece will slide all over their stupid shielded face.

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            • Not super relevant but shadowshot + Celestial GG = MASSIVELY MASSIVE DAMAGE

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            • Golden Gun is absolutely still relevant if you have Celestial. It helps a ton in the raid. Blade Dancer is still top dog as a medic with it's ridiculous invisibility duration (The rest of the class is lackluster though). The old hunter classes are designed for High, Single-Target damage. Golden gun with Celestial Nighthawk does more damage to a single target in one shot than absolutely anything else can even dream of. Hammer of Sol is a DPS/Tank class (In traditional MMOs, those are the powerhouses). Warlock's Stormcaller class is ridiculously powerful with greater numbers of enemies. In a room with one powerful enemy, it's still visually stimulating, but there isn't really that much damage output. I'm not a PvP player, so no input there.

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            • No golden gun has no travel time and a straight line hammer of sol has travel time and is easy to avoid a noob using hammer of sol does have a very strong overshield which counters the golden gun to trade back hammer of sol also very rarely gets its full 7 hammers used but Titan skating grants extra mobility in the end hammer of sol is only slightly better than golden gun and gunslingers do have better nades and throwing knives

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            • You forgot to compare hunter supers to the crap supers of Titan and warlock year 1. Hunter had best kill rate for a year. It's time he sits back and watches

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