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3/25/2023 6:05:48 PM
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It doesn’t explain its knowledge about the internal workings of the Traveler, the portal or what lies beyond it or the gods that no one else knows about. It’s also very convoluted and a rehash of an existing character. It also relies on the Light and Dark fighting, which the Traveler isn’t known for. The Winnower said that the Gardner choose this place to stand and fight. I would take that as it’s the only time such an exchange of power happened.
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  • [quote][b]Imagine the following[/b]: [i]The Witness and its people using the Light and Darkness to create a paracausal singularity, a newborn universe for them to inhabit.[/i] The Witness, whoever it was in the beginning, is the first among its people to enter the singularity, along with others who follow behind - either a colony ship like Exodus Green or the entire species. Whether out of exploration or to escape a calamity that could render their species extinct. I'll lean towards the latter for the following.[/quote] The theory implies the Witness' people had access to both the Light and the Dark, and the ability to use both. It doesn't rely on the Light and Dark fighting. It isn't a simple "rehash", but an expansion of what I noticed was a theme in the Marasenna, and the reactions of those Mara told the truth about being the first to awaken in the Distributary. The Theodicy War was sparked by the belief that Alis Li had robbed the Awoken of Godhood, and was so responsible for all the pain the Awoken in the Distributary experience. Meanwhile, the Witness itself says their purpose is to bring an end to pain. Of all the possible reasons why that is the Witness' motivation, the above theory would not only be one such possibility, but one that ties into past lore. It would also give answers for why the Witness appears to be a gestalt entity, and partly why the Witness has such immense power. As I said, it is just a theory of its origin. It wasn't intended to explain everything.

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  • Modifié par jhermannITJ : 3/25/2023 8:59:46 PM
    I think you're close... it's how I read it too. The traveler and that conflict that teared a rift in space time was planned by the Witness to prevent the internal machinations of the Universe from righting itself... to simulate balance while still siphoning power. This is how Cronus took over in greek myth too... absorbing souls and the power of other gods. Savathun has used the Witnesses tribute to 1. unshackle herself 2. expose the Witness In fact, I think she will try and convince us she IS the god of light, and we might believe her... but that's a mistake. What she did do, is essentially desroy the Witnesses facade/simulation of balance... as such the Witness is accelerating its plans for the final shape. The balance is now upset, the god of light was suppressed via the plans of the Witness now disrupted. The god of light will rise now per the Prophecy and it's not Osiris.

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  • What internal machinations to right itself? From what tilted position? Tribute flows up, not down. Savathun wouldn’t of gotten anything from the Witness. There wasn’t any balance in the universe. It’s been see sawing the whole time.

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  • It doesn’t just take access to the power. It takes a tremendous amount of it. We don’t see mini-universes springing up when we fight Dark with Light. That’s why it took two god tier powers colliding to make that space. It is a rehash, it’s Mara on steroids. As you said, he is what she would of been had she taken godhead. Even the gestalt aspect is an assumption. Wanting to end pain because….it made a space to be a god and wants to destroy the rest of the universe because it’s not like his space? Kinda petulant. That knowledge is central to his character. He knows things no one else does, has power no one else does. If you can’t make any headway there, you don’t have an origin. So far, there is a preexisting lore based reason for his power and knowledge. The Witness came from the Garden, it existed prior to creation.

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  • Except we don't know if the Witness came from the Garden, either. I think there is more evidence against that idea than for it. One of the things we know for certain is the Veil was a secret of the Witness' first victims. I'd argue that speaks to a more material origin to the Witness, rather than coming from the Garden. There was also a Bungie interview about the Pyramid Ship art a while back, as you're aware, that talks about the Witness' culture: https://www.wired.com/story/destiny-2-art-witch-queen-lightwall-the-darkness/ [quote]"The aim of Pyramid tech was to suggest a culture that has existed long enough for art, technology, and science to converge and become indistinguishable from one another. Hopefully, this direction also creates a balance between relatability and mystery. For example, a lot of the tech pieces have recognizable elements of puzzles, games, musical instruments, and sculptures; yet although their design feels purposeful, the actual function is often unknown. As far as the relationship of these visuals to the Witness, I think they speak to the strategic and elegant nature of this being. All we know is that there is a plan and pieces are being moved into place, but more about the Witness and its role in the Light and Dark saga will be revealed soon!"[/quote] Even this was said about the Witness' relationship to the Darkness: [quote]"The Darkness is a neutral force of nature that can be interacted with in many different ways. What we’re seeing with the Pyramids is the result of the Witness’ interaction with this force. It is the physical manifestation of experiencing the Darkness through the lens of the Witness’ history, culture, and ideas. Outside of the Witness’ influence, the Darkness may take on a completely different form and be used for a completely different purpose. "[/quote] The Witness has a culture, and the power of the Taken and the Pyramid Ships are a direct result of the Witness' interaction with the Darkness. I'd say that rules out the Witness coming from the Garden.

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  • Darkness power, not Light power. What part of any lore or Bungie quote shows us the Witness harnessing Light? Because what your citing it is uses Darkness. From its person to its fleet. That Bungie quote says it’s using Darkness. That everything is shaped by its interaction with it. So it was able harness Light to make itself but post godhood it can’t or doesn’t harness it? Arguably the strongest power of the two? It chooses to handicap itself? Then there is the issue of it choosing to not directly interfere so much. Didn’t calus say it was strong enough to do whatever it wanted but was choosing not to? Where’s this self imposed inaction coming from? I don’t see a self made god hamstringing itself like that. Without Light, your idea can’t work. And the Traveler doesn’t hand it out. The Winnower said it chose here to fight and make a stand and Even then, it didn’t give out Light until it was forced to. So your idea relies on behavior not seen and contrary to its known methodology. And none of that excludes an origin from the Garden. As the Vex came out of it with the knowledge and experience gained from their time there. And Unveiling said more than one pattern escaped the Garden.

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