I can bet on bungie giving the same effort as beyond light for every other fall expansion until matter comes out then they will dump d2 on the floor like they wanted to. Instead we got sunsetting. You can say whatever you want about player numbers and whatnot, but a game that people don’t recommend is a game that wont survive

[quote]You can say whatever you want about player numbers and whatnot, but a game that people don’t recommend is a game that wont s[/quote] Depends on who it is that's withholding their recommendation. The player base is not a monolith, which is the fact that so many of you keep missing. Just because you or your group of friends are unhappy doesn't mean that everyone else is. People who came to this game as RPG gamers, as a group, aren't complaining. They are still happily playing. Because they are the group of players that make up the LARGEST group within the (PVE) palyer base. They have been the most loyal part of the player base.... ...and they are the part of the player base that Bungie is targeting with the changes.

Wrong. I’ve been an RPG gamer since I played my first pen and paper RPG more than 30 years ago. And since then I’d say roughly 85-90% of my time spent playing any game in any variant has been RPG:s of some form. Destiny has never been less appealing than it is right now - even the first year of Destiny 2 was better than this. And it’s mostly because of sunsetting and how clumsily and not thought-through it was implemented.

Smh. Then you missed the point because there have never been any loot games that let you keep loot forever and endlessly level it up. And you’ve been playing these games long enough to know that and to know better. I feel sympathy for the shooter gamers who got taken in by Bungie’s Impossible Promise. But you should have known that this game would come to this, and that the only way this franchise has survived this long is that Bungie planned to abandon these games every third year.

I didn’t miss any point. But you clearly misread my post.

No. I didn’t miss it. It’s an emotional argument. “If it feels bad then it is bad.”

It doesn't matter if you're emotional - you're still missing my point. Maybe it's the language barrier, english isn't my 1st language so if that's the case - I deeply appologize. But here, I'll try to make it really simple for you: You said: RPG players doesn't complain. I (as a lifelong RPG player): I complain. This isn't really open for argumentation, but please refrain from trying to voice my opinion in the future.

There’s actually a player that uses a specific tracker that shows the player numbers every day, and....they aren’t good.

I would agree it definitely seems that way. Gotta be honest tho, the whole community was upset at the sunset issue. Hell, the last month they all have been vocal about it. I think whats pissing people off is that that issue wasn’t addressed with more clarity. I used to work in PR, and I gotta say, Bungie should have addressed it more after the outcry regardless of they spoke about it months ago. The future does have hope tho. As always my brotha, Thank you for your consistent feedback, even though you’re not appreciated the way you should be, to the people that it matters to, you provide a good perspective. Hoping they get this right. I mean why not just reinstate all shadow keep gear and all dreaming city gear? Why limit?

[quote]I think whats pissing people off is that that issue wasn’t addressed with more clarity.[/quote] I'm going to have to break with you on that one. (Thanks for the rest of your post, by the way. Very kind.) Luke Smith was VERY clear about what sunsetting was....why it was necessary...and why all of Bungie's other efforts to try to manage the game without it were failing. [i][b]But by that point, it was too late.[/b] [/i] Five Years of the Big Lie (You can keep your stuff forever), was too much to overcome. The expectation of, and sense of entitlement to, keep your stuff forever was too deeply rooted. To the point that some players simply refuse to hear anything else at this point.....and to those who are willing to listen Bungie's credibility on this matter is GONE.. Which is is why I'm here. I recognize the HOLE Bungie dug for themselves and for the game by PANDERING to this shooter gamer mentality for five years. I recognize that this game will never become a credible action-RPG until a method of INTELLIGENTLY retiring power from the game gets incorporated into it, and gains player acceptance. I recognize that this game will never be able to give us loot worth chasing as long as EVERYTHING added to it becomes a permanent addition to the game. [b]So I've driven a stake into the ground, and I will defend its necessity.[/b] Though I will NEVER defend Bungie or how we got here. Because what I'm doing NEVER should have been necessary, and it NEVER should have taken Bungie five damn years to get here. But I'm doing it because the game needs it....and Bungie doesn't have the credibility anymore to do this..... ...and any effort by them to do this would just make them look weak, and would lead those who are against sunsetting to believe that the matter is still open to debate. Because Bungie has painted themselves into a corner where their only effective strategy is to effectively shutdown any debate through their silence. The only option they have at this point is a raw contest of wills with those who are opposed.

I 150% percent understand and see what you’re talking about. I think you stated it quite clear and articulate. Which is so unappreciated nowadays lol. And yea Luke did state all that, But players are now experiencing it. They’ve gone thru the first step of the process of sunsetting and I think that the feedback or response warrants something. In short I feel it’s data being ignored. Then again, after what you stated, the bog picture is what counts. Just hope we get there ya know? Like a simple fix would be make all weapons starting season 13 have a cap of 1410 LL. That would ease things up a bit. Yet, they won’t it seems. Thanks buddy

Np. The game will get there...but it is going to be a painful and bumpy ride. What my old man used to call a "kidney buster". The "problem" is that not everyone is going to make it there with it. This game is going to shed players in this process. All those players who cannot accept the transformation...and dont' want to play the kind of game that Destiny is becoming. ...and they are going to kick, and scream, and curse Bungie all the way to the bottom. But Bungie did this to themselves. They put off this confrontation---this unification of the player base behind a clear vision of what the game is going to be-----and like a really bad marriage? The divorce is going to be loud and is going to get ugly.