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Edited by 6 speed:
3/2/2023 7:17:26 PM
77
Bungie's LGBTQ representation IS forced, But not in the way you think
Bit of a preamble here for context and perspective, I'm a trans woman. I'm pansexual. I'm 46. Again, I put that out there only for context:
When it was revealed that Saint-14 and Osiris were a couple I was confused. I liked the representation, that's a given. But at no point ever did my gaydar go off. Not a ping. Not a peep. In my opinion *that* was forced representation. It was pairing that made no sense, not even to this queer trans woman. It was almost like reverse queerbaiting.
That's what we have here with Nimbus. The NB status seems like a complete after thought, which when coupled with the horrible dialog makes the character even weaker. Nimbus isn't just a dumb character due to being non binary. Their non-binary status as essentially an afterthought is just as insulting. The hate Nimbus is receiving for being non-binary is just a symptom of the shallowness of the character as a whole.
Do you know what good LGBT rep looks like in D2?
Devrim. It wasn't forced. He offered tid-bits here and there through his dialog. "I miss Mark's tea." It establishes a link to a backstory. Devrim never struck me as being "forced" he was just there. Part of the effort like everyone else. Which is kinda the point. He's not a gay sniper. He's a sniper who just happens to be gay. THAT is the difference between good representation and forced.
Sloan was great representation as well. I know some of you might not see it but, come on now? Really? That 7' tall titan just screamed lesbian. But again. It wasn't forced. For me, it was subtle. Sloan in my opinion was heavily queer coded. I mean... LOOK AT HER.
Nimbus being nb fails mostly because their entire character is forced. It's an amalgamation of tropes
Lastly this makes me feel the same way when I'm put in the ridiculous position of having to defend K Jenner. She's a shitty person period. She's not shitty b/c she's trans. She's just a terrible -blam!- person.
** Mods you can lock this. At this point I'm just -blam!- talking the terfs. **
English
#destiny2
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I just don't like nimbus cause the dialogue irritates me feels like some stoner skateboarder getting involved in a swat team operation
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4 RepliesIt's massively forced outside of any real semblance to reality. To date, I can only think of 1 "straight" relationship ever fully-featured in the game. That being Zavala and whats-her-name. Cayde kinda thought he had a family but never could actually remember. Every other relationship in story, that I can recall, is not hetero-normal. Over 99% of the world's population is straight, even in post apocalypse world where people are "reborn with space magic" this would still be the vastly overwhelming SOP for humanity and the "space magic gods". Western Culture has passed the point from having enough to get by and have a good life to the point of opulence and, for lack of better wording, cultural decay, that these things have become massively overblown past any reason or simple %'s. Movies and TV from the likes of Mel Brooks, Monty Python, Tropic Thunder, ect cannot be made today because of what equates to a Cultic Mind Virus the vast Majority of Media. Outside of South Park, lampooning this kid of crap has been murdered for the sake of "seeing yourself in everyone else around you", forcing the change of language that falls in line with George Orwell's 1984 and the like. For the sake of "inclusion" while excluding with Spanish Inqusition levels of zeal and psudoreligiosity normality and reality.
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13 RepliesEdited by BedlamX: 3/2/2023 11:54:28 AMWhy is anyone pushing any kind of, gender or anything else in a game where you collect the best weapons to battle the forces of evil? Do I care if Calus is gay or straight…nope I’m still putting a bullet in his fat ugly head Do I care that Nimbus is whatever…nope give me my gear and shut the f up Do I care who’s plugging who….nope why should I care if Crow has a bonrr for What’s her face… None of this adds to the game I have no idea why Bungie or anyone else continues to push ideologies, s ex uality, gender or politics in a game. Just let me for a few hours escape reality and shoot some Fukien aliens
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As the straightest and whitest guy on this board, well said. It's just dumb. I honestly don't know for sure who in the Destiny world is actually straight. They never bother to let me know who they are boinking. Maybe Shaxx, but he could still be bi. No huge pronouncements of straightness, and guess what, I'm not looking for any. Destiny is not a rom-com. The Saint thing made me really lose respect for the writers for literally retconning that in there. Witch Queen was great, but Lightfall basically might be the end of my Destiny journey since D1 year 2. I have no interest in Destiny becoming the worst parts of the MCU.
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5 RepliesSo you're a confused man confused by other confused men.
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2 RepliesEdited by MythosPraxis: 3/2/2023 5:22:17 PMHere’s the thing…. Every -blam!- or gender identity is forced. All of them. That doesn’t mean that they, or representations of them, don’t matter. The point is rather to emphasize the conflict at the heart of the matter for each and every one. This is a core element of the queer theory that nb people are into. If your criticizing Nimbus for this, you’re missing the point entirely. Edit: it’s also pathetic I can’t even use the language that people on board with the politics need in order to approach the topic with the dignity and attention it deserves because Bungie has to censor it because of jerks.
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19 RepliesI have said many of these same things and had my post locked because I do not identify as LGBTQ. Hopefully they will listen to you. Sad that you have to be LGBTQ to be allowed to share your feelings on Bungie’s narrative choices. Thank you for sharing and speaking up.
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I totally agree. Nimbus is BAD writing. I dont care what gender or -blam!- a character has, but when its forced like with cringe lord Nimbus i just want to puke.
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1 ReplyYeah Bungie is textbook "upper class cis white people" trying to be woke. They're completely out of touch. And do more harm with their poor representation
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Bungie cares about money & they know virtue signaling this way solidifies financial stability from their audience they’re pandering to. If the current culture climate started to turn away from supporting these topics - Bungie’s forceful injecting it would also stop. It’s the same with all media / entertainment mega corps. The saddest part of all of this is the dim witted individuals that idolize the corporations & believe the BS. These are the people y’all see defending a corporation like your just said something offensive about their mother.
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4 Replies[quote]When it was revealed that Saint-14 and Osiris were a couple I was confused. I liked the representation, that's a given. But at no point ever did my gaydar go off. Not a ping. Not a peep. In my opinion *that* was forced representation. It was pairing that made no sense, not even to this queer trans woman. It was almost like reverse queerbaiting.[/quote] Because it was both forced, and a retcon. Ana was written as a lesbian. That's perfectly fine. Devrim was written as low-key gay. Also 100% fine. Non-issue, and actually well-done because it doesn't reek of tokenism. They're simply human beings who happen to have particular preferences. You know, almost like real people. Saint-14 and Osiris were never gay lovers. They were comrades in arms. When you rescue Saint the first time, before the retcon, he even asks you to help initiate dialogue with "Osiris, my brother." You ever heard of lovers referring to each other as siblings? No, because that's creepy and weird. Bungie blatantly retconned that in order to have a "Look at us, we're so progressive, look at our token gays! Aren't you impressed with our inclusivity? See? Gay!" It's so forced it's painful. Write LGBTs as people who happen to be LGBT, not as LGBT tokens who happen to be people. Simple as that.
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Devrim is an excellent representation. Actually one of my favourite NPCs. Gay people are just people who are gay, like i am a person who happens to be straight. Gay people will chat about their partner, like i chat abour my wife and kids. Unforced and natural. Most realistic in game. Great character. Didn't get it with Sloan, to me she was just tough. Saint/Osiris forced. I have a gay relative and they like Devrim too.
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Good post and really well thought out ideas! 👍
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Bungie spent more time telling you the seggual identities of their characters than actually making a game people care about. I don't care who wants to bone who, just make a game with interesting characters and story.
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Locked as requested.
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Edited by eeriearcade: 3/2/2023 4:14:12 PMCharacters representing marginalised groups tend to have an extra layer of scrutiny applied to them. Are you saying writers shouldn’t take risks with those characters (because the stakes are higher)? I see what you’re saying about Devrim. It was a subtle way to drip feed his character that I enjoyed. I always feel like the more personal or emotional stories are better told that way in Destiny (I’m mainly here to shoot aliens and save the world). I do appreciate Bungie representing different people though. I think that’s cool, whether the characters land or not.
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Yeah whenever something is forced to show the audience or consumer “We’re here for you!” Just rubs me the wrong way. I don’t mind intimate scenes either, but there has to be a time and place for everything as well as BUILD UP!! For Instance, If Rasputin and Ana somehow got into a relationship and Kissed or whatever, I would be fine because the relationship between them was continuously being built up since Warmind. Osiris and Saint even had potential but there wasn’t any build up that could be seen unless you are lore heavy apparently. On the other hand Zavalas Family was more so for development for him as a character and a familial bond between him and Caital, and it didn’t seem out of nowhere with him either since it feels like he looks out for everyone.
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1 ReplyThe problem that conservatives have with LGBT portrayals in the game is that it tempts them to experiment with their repressed non-binary pansexual urges. Seriously, there is so much wrong with Lightfall that LGBT NPC's should be the least of their concerns. Focus your criticism on what really matters.
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1 ReplyEdited by Balisane: 3/2/2023 6:52:05 PMI truly, deeply understand where you're coming from, but you also need to recognize your internalized fears, so you don't perpetuate the cycle. It's terrifying to see other queer people so obvious and exposed, because it makes you feel exposed, also. And so you assume it must be wrong, but it is not wrong to be seen. This thread is full of noisy and unpleasant people who are desperate to perpetuate fear. But you don't have to live with their desires for you.
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3 RepliesEdited by Olórin: 3/2/2023 12:35:15 PMCouldn't give af about American political issues or a character's gender in a game. I just wanna play games bruv.
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[quote]Bit of a preamble here for context and perspective, I'm a trans woman. I'm pansexual. I'm 46. Again, I put that out there only for context: When it was revealed that Saint-14 and Osiris were a couple I was confused. I liked the representation, that's a given. But at no point ever did my gaydar go off. Not a ping. Not a peep. In my opinion *that* was forced representation. It was pairing that made no sense, not even to this queer trans woman. It was almost like reverse queerbaiting. That's what we have here with Nimbus. The NB status seems like a complete after thought, which when coupled with the horrible dialog makes the character even weaker. Nimbus isn't just a dumb character due to being non binary. Their non-binary status as essentially an afterthought is just as insulting. The hate Nimbus is receiving for being non-binary is just a symptom of the shallowness of the character as a whole. Do you know what good LGBT rep looks like in D2? Devrim. It wasn't forced. He offered tid-bits here and there through his dialog. "I miss Mark's tea." It establishes a link to a backstory. Devrim never struck me as being "forced" he was just there. Part of the effort like everyone else. Which is kinda the point. He's not a gay sniper. He's a sniper who just happens to be gay. THAT is the difference between good representation and forced. Sloan was great representation as well. I know some of you might not see it but, come on now? Really? That 7' tall titan just screamed lesbian. But again. It wasn't forced. For me, it was subtle. Sloan in my opinion was heavily queer coded. I mean... LOOK AT HER. Nimbus being nb fails mostly because their entire character is forced. It's an amalgamation of tropes Lastly this makes me feel the same way when I'm put in the ridiculous position of having to defend K Jenner. She's a shitty person period. She's not shitty b/c she's trans. She's just a terrible -blam!- person.[/quote] I don't agree with some of what you said, some representation is better than none. What I do care about is the hate and bigotry I've read in response to your post. Which is unacceptable. There have been LGBTQ people for thousands of years. -blam!- is seen across the animal kingdom. Just because some of these idiots are uneducated doesn't mean they can be hateful to others. Have my upvote because the world needs more love and understanding, not bigotry.
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9 RepliesEdited by NotCreative123: 3/2/2023 2:00:05 PM[b]Osiris and Saint kiss. [/b] - No other characters have ever kissed in any Destiny game (to my knowledge) - No other romantic relationship has been mentioned in any Destiny game (to my knowledge) - ANY kissing is going to feel out of place, because that's not what this game is about EDIT: Apparently, romantic relationships are more commonplace than I thought, so maybe kissing isn't so out of place.
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These people are insecure and attention hungry. That's all it is.
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That what I said in anther post before it got took down. Nimbus feels like character that was in progress and got changed half way through for a self insert for someone in bungie.
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1 ReplyI didn’t even know he was non-binary. That is how little this matters
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5 RepliesAlso, there are now more trans characters in D2 than straight, white males. Let that sink in
