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Edited by RedEntropy: 4/29/2016 9:18:27 AM
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Can you balance nightstalkers?? (Hunters perspective)

So I've been a hunter since y1 I have played every subclass and mastered them. I currently main a golden gun because of how much fun it is. I do however use blade once in a while. I no longer use Nightstalker in crucible I use that class strictly for pve to make orbs. The Nightstalker class is broken right now. It is the second best class in the game apart from sunsingers. It needs some balancing. I will describe in detail what is broken about it, how to fix it and why I no longer play Nightstalker in crucible. [b][u]Why is Nightstalker broken?[/u][/b] The thing that is broken or "op" as many of you may be more familiar with is the shadestep and the smoke. Shadestep is beyond broken especially if you are playing someone who sweats or is actually good with the class. You may run into the causal player who uses it and does bad with it. Those who can actually use it (regardless of scuff controller) can not only annoy but use the maneuver to get away with a lot of things they shouldn't. That ability to spam shadestep and dodge any grenade is broken. Every class has a grenade that should be effective to other guardians no exception. Also while in shadestep you usually don't take damage and confuse the shit out of everyone around you. The ability to be immune is horrible and you can spam it 2 times in a row without a cool down. Also after shadestep you can almost immediately jump or shoot your weapon and this can be a pain in the rear, especially if you were really trying to kill the person and they suddenly pop up out of no where and turn on you. It takes no skill. Smoke is broken the range of that melee is beyond any grenade in the hunters arsenal. It's funny that smoke is a melee too it should honesty rather be a grenade. It can attach to you and do damage then after it does damage over time and blinds you. And if the person is shadesteping around you while u are in smoke, you can begin to tap the respawn button because you will die. The range in smoke is too far also, there has been many instances where I am out of the smoke yer somehow still in it. It is ridiculous how far the smoke extends. Also it should it should not deal that much damage to you. It's pretty much a super/grenade you can regenerate every 29 seconds. [b][u]Ideas on how to fix them[/u][/b] I will start off by saying buff the super cause tether is garbage in the crucible but I won't go into detal To balance shadestep It is simple add a longer cool down after every shadestep. That way you can't spam it and you actually have to time it right. It is not a jump like blink u shouldn't be allowed to use it 2 times per cool down. Also remove the immunity from grenades. A grenade should deal damage to you no matter what whether it be an arcbolt or an axion. Also maybe add some frames after the shadestep that way people can't jump or shoot right after just like you did to blink. To balance smoke it is also simple remove the damage over time from it and shorten the area of effect. The smoke will still deal impact if you are stuck with it and maybe buff the damage a bit but after it should not do DOT. It don't mind if I'm blind in it or w.e.. [u][b]Why I don't play Nightstalker in the crucible [/b][/u] Apart from everyone wanting to use that crutch class in a "sweaty" (only 1 subclass per teammate allowed) it is not fun. When I played shade I literally got massive amounts of hate mail during pubs. I had never gotten so much rage. When I played shade I thought I was one of the best players in my friends list. I though I was unstoppable. Then I switched to a different subclass and I didn't do so hot. I did good just not amazing. Then I began to see how much of a broken piece of shit Nightstalker really was. After every shadestep and wombo I no longer felt satisfied and actual felt like a chump. So I decided to quit that class and never some back just like I did with sunsinger. Feel free to comment below. If you need a trials carry/help/just want to play crucible feel free to add me.
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  • I think the biggest issue is the shade step glitch/exploit. It allows two immediate rolls just by pulling out your ghost and then mashing b, b again. If you are playing against someone who is good at doing the glitch/exploit then countering them is near impossible in some cases. I don't feel like any one class should have an evade of that nature that can completely decimate any other subclass. Simply make is so a ghost can't be pulled during a shade step. Easy fix. Now onto the smoke. My thought is add a delay similar to throwing two grenades that where there is a .5 second to 1 second "cool down" before the other can be deployed. Maybe they should also rework the perk that allows for those abilities to be extended when in use. I shouldn't be held in smoke which is technically a melee for near as long as I am. Compared to other subclasses melee that do dot it is crazy at how long smoke lasts. I don't won't to see the class broken just balanced a small bit. Equally because people are also complaining about Viking funeral and touch of flame, I don't won't to see that class broken either. That combo has been in the game since day one and people have just recently started to complain about it. Not because it is op but because Bungie has hit everything else so hard that it gives it the illusion that it's op. Now my suggestion to fixing it and not breaking it would be to keep the damage it deals (maybe a 1 or 2 point decrease to damage dealt) but decrease the damage over time so if you're hit by one you can get away and start recovery quicker.

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  • The one thing that you forgot to mention is the super. Yes shade step with shade step canceling and the wombo combo are very broken but you have to remember how incredibly underpowered the super is. Black hole is the only way to get descent time on your tether but for crucible you will generally be using quiver. Having said that that, the tether time on quiver is super short and honestly it's annoying to use. I think that if you change shade step of the wombo combo that you have to do something to buff the shadow shot.

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  • If you're going to change the mechanics on nightstalker then they better make quiver stop and kill a person mid super(sunbreakers, stormcallers, and sunsingers) upon impact of the quiver arrows. Why do i need 2 arrows to take you down?

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  • I think everybody knows. Deep down. Nightstalker is the best subclass. It's probably one of the hardest to use well, but it has the highest skill ceiling. It's fantastic in Kingsfall. It's great in 6v6, and 3v3s. And a vast majority of good trials players run Nightstalker, You can shut down supers, throw the wombo combo, using gravitas forfeit you can have both keen scout (ie leet wallhacks) and shadestep which is arguably the most useful ability in the game. You can use shadestep to dodge grenades, cross open spaces without getting sniper, disoriented openents, check snipe lanes etc etc. It's nice to see that somebody finally noticed that nightstalker is a really powerful subclass. And what's really hilarious is that the warlock community almost never complains about the night stalkers, and the hunter community is always crying about sunsinger. Which isn't even a very good subclass when you consider they are only good for chucking grenades, (that you can just shadestep) and they are worthless in endgame PvE content. -sidenote. If you don't believe that hunters have the best subclasses, check the crucible leaderboards. Top 100 spots,usually 60% hunters, 25%titans 15%warlocks. And I'm willing to bet most of those hunters are nightstalker.

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    • I use Nightstalker and shade step. I don't use graviton forfeit but I do have it ready to buy. When I use Nightstalker my k/d is around 2 or 3. I'm between casual and sweaty and I think that smoke should be toned down to where it doesn't slow you that much. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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      • Edited by Apex of War: 4/28/2016 2:08:53 PM
        If it was up to me to tinker with the class, I would increase Shade Step C/D by 2 seconds, make Shadow Shot tether enemies the instant it makes impact, and replace Vortex grenade with Magnetic

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      • Everything is op in the hands of the right person.

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      • Nightfgt stalkers are cancer

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      • I've been sniped mid shade step way to many times so your wrong

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        • [quote]Blah blah blah....I'm trying to sound smart and reasonable, so I'm going to write a long post to cover up the fact that I'm just whining and want things nerfed to further ruin the pve side of the game.[/quote] I fixed it for you. Will people like you please leave the game? You're the reason that a storm caller can't even kill a major captain in one super.

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          • If someone has MASTERED a class or ability as you say, they deserve to revel in their victory.

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          • Only thing I truly dislike about nightstalkers are the grenades. I think they are the weakest grenades out of all the subclasses. Especially in PVE

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            • I[quote][/quote]never get complaints with night stalker on crucible lmao it feels like half this stuff your saying is made up. Just because it's effective doesn't mean it deserves a nerf. It's not overpowered, it has a cooldown, I kill people all the time midway though the animation. If you can't predict where they're gonna evade then that's just you. Quit crying nerf you scrub. Stop ruining the game. 😊😊😊😊 notice hunters can't even shoot when they shadestep, that's your chance too 😂 learn to Play instead of crying nerf just because of your lack of skill.

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              • I still don't get why people are so bent out of shape over smokexgrenade. It takes up both slots and doesn't even guarantee you a kill. It does work though. Pretty well. But titans and warlocks get overshields. On just their [i]melee[/i]. Hell, voidwalkers can instantly regen everything and sunsingers get it on hit. Defenders just have to get the melee kill. And then there's the endless ticking of the Firebolts (combined with that beautiful viking funeral). And the titans lighting grenades in general. And shadestep? I just consider that the Hunters shoulder charge. It's all about even I'd say.

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                • You sure have "mastered" those classes with the shitty stats.

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                  • Edited by WEEJI xDoWx: 4/28/2016 12:54:58 PM
                    All I see is salt. Another nerf post disguised as 'balance' lol I will add this though, the game can't be balanced around PvP and expect to be the same in PvE, every nerf kills the actual main part of the game. PvP was and still should be an afterthought.

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                  • Edited by Hulkksmash: 4/28/2016 12:51:20 PM
                    91.2% people making threads about balance are actually just crying because they died to it. Dont be another statistic ... fight the stupidity. Stay in school!

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                  • Np. It's garbage that nightstalkers can hit circle circle when they have 1 HP and get out of any situation. Low on health? = Shadestep Getting rushed? =Shadestep Arcbolt? = Shadestep Firebolt? = Shadestep Skip grenade? =Shadestep Truth Rocket about to do a 180 up your arse? =Shadestep How is this not blam-ing broken?

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                    • I feel like nightstalkers tether shouldn't kill but instead it suppresses on hit and last a few seconds longer. Unless defender titans are able to get a kill with their super i feel that nightstalkers shouldn't

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                    • If we nerf Smoke, I'm nerfing Warlocks melee range also.

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                    • Edited by SCI 22: 4/28/2016 9:31:23 AM
                      Nightstalkers are fine. Seriously. Did you all give up complaining about sunsingers and now you feel you must attack nightstalkers? Other than blade dancer and sunbreaker hit detection, nothing of subclasses needs to be changed or "fixed". Not even sunsingers. And especially not nightstalkers.

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                      • Nightstalker is the weakest pvp class. You're delusional if you think it needs nerfs. Especially with the huge warlock buffs.

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                        • You realise for that combo to work you need to use both your grenade AND your melee?......

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                          • Shadestep already has a cooldown you cheeseball

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                            • I can agree with this post. Signed.

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                              • Imo the combo needs a range decrease, that's all

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