Viable (and once viable) PvP weapons (not including heavies which are good no matter how bad they are): [u]VAULT OF GLASS[/u] Found Verdict (still top tier) Praedyth's Revenge (probably still top tier... but too hard to use because of poor AA) Vision of Confluence (full auto/zen moment!) Atheon's Epilogue (now inferior to Doctrine/Arminius) Praetorian Foil (now inferior to Darkblade's Spite... Might be dead.) Praedyth's Timepiece (dead) Fatebringer (dead... it wasn't THAT bad. It had decent stats/perks/epic magazine) Vex Mythoclast (dead) [u]CROTA'S END[/u] Word of Crota (still top tier... if HC's were good and TLW wasn't OP) Fang of Ir Yût (?) Oversoul Edict (dead) Abyss Defiant (dead) Light of the Abyss (dead) [u]KING'S FALL[/u] Harrowed Defiance of Yasmin (because some people love the scope. Still sucks)

Light of the abyss was the best fusion rifle in crucible hands down.

let's just face it, the VoG weapons are king, they are the measure which everything is compared to. The Crota raid weapons were really good, they gave you special ability over the enemy which was cool and useful. The KF weapons are ...... meh. Yes the coccoon perk is excellent but it had to be for the reload speed on all them is in the basement. I think it all went south for the KF raid weapons when you could get a weapon like Hung Jury right out of the box, no waiting, bam, and it's still a very solid weapon. Same could be said for most weapons guardians are using. The weapons you pick up, farm, or buy are really good, which is excellent. This is what you want in a shooter, great guns. knowing all this, the real question remains, why have infusion at all? I'm a year 1 vet and when you got a weapon back then, bam that was it, you had it, you got to enjoy it, it was at it's peak right then. Though the evolution of the game has changed quite a few things, some for the better, some they just screwed up and should've just left it alone. But that year 1 grind for the weapon that didn't drop yet is the biggest difference between Y1 & Y2 and I think it needs to come back. It made the game exciting. It kept players playing. I'll say that again, it kept players playing. Remember your first Gjallahorn, Fatebringer, Black Hammer dropping for you? It was freakin awesome! In the end lose the infusion, keep the great guns coming, raise the light level and give us a new raid or bring back the old ones! Bam - dropped the mic

Edit 2 is b.s lots of people used raid weapons in crucible. Vision, Atheon, found verdict, praedths, word of crota, vex mythoclast, blackhammer, and the Crotas end shotgun along with a few more weapons.

Absolutely! Vision, Fatebringer, Found Verdict, Praedyth's timepiece, Corrective Measure, Fang, Oversoul!!! All very good in pvp. Smite of Merain is the only raid weapon I use in pvp, now. The self reloading perk is helpful...but it takes away from any diversity the guns could have. Y1 raid weapons were very unique because of their perks.

I didn't know there was a Hand Cannon... is it like Praetorian Rare?

Cozmo asks below for ideas to make the raid weapons better. Bungie don't really know do they? They are so completely lost and in over their heads they can't make a good weapon anymore. All their best ideas went into the brilliant Vault of Glass weapons and into a few of the Year 1 exotics, and especially the mighty Gjallarhorn. They are so intent on grounding the weapons (players) that they have forgotten this is a futuristic alien filled FPS that potentially opens up the field to amazingly weird and wonderful weapons and abilities. Let's see some rail guns. Lasers. How about a mini rocket launcher like Valus T has? A tranq gun (tranqed enemies have a higher chance of dropping loot than enemies killed outright)(including bosses). Some super incredibly long range snipers (though you'd need to make areas or strikes that could accommodate a fun sniping session like that). Failing all that, how about making the raid weapon have the best stats for their type. And all have standard perks of double damage to Hive and Taken. (I'm tired of all the weak perks, small amount of bonus damage to this guy, moderate damage to this one... BUFF THE PLAYER. Make the game fun!) -The auto rifle shoots straight with next to no recoil, with higher impact and ROF than any other. And yes, a decent mag size! -The hand cannon reloads FAST and has good range. Firefly is standard. -The pulse shoots as fast as Grasp of Malok with high impact. -The shotgun... well... shotguns in general need a major buff before even the once good ones will be effective again. -The fusion rifle should shoot straight as a laser and have the longest range of them all. And while the enemy is disintergrating, any enemy that touches them takes damage. -The sidearm... well, even Bungie doesn't think much of sidearms as there isn't a raid one. -The machine gun is fine, though being the raid one why not bump it's stats a little? -The rocket launcher should have max impact and velocity and standard perks of tracking and cluster bombs. And if any of these are overpowered, you can just say that Shaxx has banned their use in normal Crucible. (Maybe he bans the use of untested enemy based weapons in crucible). Then make a special event where raid weapons are allowed in some Crucible mode and watch the <0.5s kills mount up. TL;DR Use your imagination Cozmo and Bungie. You've proven with Fatebringer and the Mythoclast, with Gjallarhorn and Ice Breaker and Thorn that you can come up with some great weapons, you just need to refocus and learn to love games and Destiny again. Focus on making the game [b]fun[/b] BEFORE focusing on how to make us keep playing with the grind.

Bump. They took damage elements away because they thought they affected our decision making in regards to what weapons we use. At the same time, the made raid weapons perform like shit. Thanks Luke.