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5/29/2024 2:23:20 AM
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Why didn't Savathun hide the Veil in her Throne World?
So in the Witch Queen campaign, it's revealed that Savathun's plan is to bring the Traveler into her Throne World to seal it off from the Witness's reach. But she must have known we would fight her on that, and we know she knew there was a possibility she would lose and die (hence the contingencies she put in place to have Immaru bargain with us to bring her back). So why didn't she instead just move the Veil into her Throne World? The Witness needed both to exact its Final Shape, and the Guardians had no clue about or vested interest in the Veil at that time, she could have moved it into her Throne World without us even knowing (much less resisting). So why didn't she take that route?
This is just something I was thinking about as I was pondering what will happen in the expansion and hoping the Final Shape sheds some more light on the Collapse, and in particular Savathun's decision to betray the Witness, kill Nezarac, and hide the Veil on Neptune. I realize the practical answer may be that the Veil was a later-developed macguffin, but I was just wondering if there was any more to the answer.
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I can think of 2 possibilities: 1. Timing- which queen campaign happened before lightfall and us finding the veil. If savathun tried to move the veil from neomuna, it may have tipped off the witnesses' forces to its location sooner. Hiding the traveler instead would result in both the Traveler and veil being hidden (at least at that point in time). Re-hiding the veil could risk exposing both. 2. Part of savathuns plan involved her becoming a lightbearer, thus making the traveler her new source of power - it makes sense she would prioritize the traveler's safety over that of the veil. This would have also potentially given her leverage against the guardians who also rely on the Traveler for power.
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6 RepliesEdited by Rainbine 9545: 5/30/2024 12:58:07 AMSimple, I doubt the veil was even part of the plan I can prove this with 3 parts 1: why did the witness go past the plot device if it knew it needed it 2: as people said the cutscenes perfectly cut and play as if none of that stuff mattered 3: why the lightfall had the weakest story arc dlcs to drop
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The simple answer to this question is that Rhulk was there and therefore her throne world was not the safest place to hide the veil That's the retroactive lore reason anyway. The real reason is because it as a mcguffin had not been conceived yet.
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Edited by It Was Me, Barry: 5/29/2024 11:33:49 PMSimple. You don't hide macguffins somewhere they can easily be found, or else you lose most of your story.
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18 RepliesBecause if the Traveler was in her throne world the veil didn't matter And we come in like a blundering bafoon and ruin everything That's why I don't like the witch queen campaign, we and savathun are fighting against the same threat, why are we fighting each other ?
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Edited by The-IIID-Emp1r3: 5/29/2024 10:55:11 PMBecause she trapped Rhulk there duh, her plan was always to either destroy the Traveler or in this case post-rez wanting to instead seal it (yes seal it, not just hide, but put it to sleep for good) in her Throne World where nobody could just walk in willy nilly Also Nezarec already told us what she did (also lore cards detailing how it went down) to him, how she stole it, yeeted his ship onto the moon and put the veil where she knew humans would find it and study it to have a chance at survival, the white worm however told us (and Mara) how she duped the Witness into leaving for whatever reason, probably lied that Nezarec stole the veil away and fled and with the Traveler being crippled and kept crippled by the Black Heart sapping it's Light it makes sense the Witness would just go out there and lay dormant until the day someone would destroy the Black Heart as a way that after some time the Traveler would heal and use it's power to deal with a threat trying to steal the thing the Witness needs (which in one timelines as seen during our time w/ the Sundial the Cabal had destroyed the Traveler and used the remnants to their own uses, meaning the Witness would have no issues still reigning over the universe, idk if it's the same timeline where the Vex end up snuffing out our Sun and control everything, most likely as the Fallen still survived even in such a dark future) to signal that if humans survived on earth then so could some elsewhere, that the Traveler lives and can tell it (peering in it's thoughts, memory) where the veil is due to the bond the Traveler shares with it...so here we are now
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She ran out of real estate and had to glimmer to rent more land
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5 RepliesLightFail..the veil..hey looked it rhymed.. was all just BS put together last minuet. Like they still havent Explained the whats its face..the "Light Artifact". The Lore after WQ became so Waterdown and Lazy....i treat as Episode 7-9 of Star wars. Just made up BS.
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9 RepliesIf Savathûn had brought the Veil into her Throne World prior to the events of Season of Arrivals she would’ve declared herself a traitor too soon and likely found herself the sole focus of the Witness as opposed to having Xivu Arath set on her. Savathûn couldn’t bring the Veil into her Throne World between Arrivals and Witch Queen because she was in hiding, having abandoned her Throne World for a time. Upon gaining the Light Savathûn lost her memories. Upon gaining them back, she priorities safeguarding her means of immortality in the Traveler as well as securing a means of turning the tide against Rhulk.
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Rhulk was the reason, he is far stronger than savathun, and its noted a few times throught witchqueens lore cards that she was losing ground against him, he also has a direct line to the witness, and savathuns throne world isnt infinite, there are limits on how big they can be. Also the veil emits alot of energy that could most likely be detected easily by anyone
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Welcome to what happens when you make up your story as you go. You get massive plot holes that are never answered.
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7 RepliesThe pay-off was vastly better. The plan wasn’t just to hide the Traveler but gain the Light beforehand. That would have given her the better power and sole stewardship of its source. In a domain she controls and influences. But hiding the Veil in her throneworld wouldn’t have been safe. As its Darkness derived, the Witness and its minions can gain entry. As we saw with Rhulk coming in to watch over her and her trouble keeping the Scorn out. Moving it would have removed it from whatever cloaking it had on Neomuna and the Witness would have taken it back. Her motives were explored during Witch Queen. In the Books of Sorrow, before the Hive Gods split up, she remarked to Oryx about whether the sword logic was the right bet (paraphrasing), cause the ever increasing costs to stay immortal was ever growing. She knew way back then that the Worm Pact would kill them in the end. Either an inability to feed the hunger or after they killed everything and there was no way to feed anymore. She tried Imbaru: “With this tribute, I shall undertake a mighty work. A real humdinger of a scheme. I'm going to refinance my entire existence. I'm going to move from an existential economy based on the accumulation of violence to an existential economy based on the accumulation of secrets and the tribute of failing-to-understand-me. I shall name this tribute of failing-to-understand IMBARU, for it shall be as formless as the mist." But that was ultimately just a time buying measure. It allowed her to not focus on conquest and instead focusing on scheming. Hence why she snaked a way to fulfill the criteria in a way that furthered her own ambitions. As for The Veil being a macguffin, that’s on point. D1 lore said it was an artifact the Vex found but now it’s something the Sol Divisive was tasked to create by the Witness. And this whole making it a second time was just made up as filler. Cause the Witness didn’t do anything with it or study it. Just had Ghost fly up and connect with it, something he already knew how to do. So how that means that suddenly he can tell them how to make it properly? Makes no sense. The Veil was made up to help establish a separation between Light and Dark. Whereas originally Darkness was only corrupted Light.
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2 RepliesCause rhulk was there
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Because......discomfort? I dunno.
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6 RepliesEdited by Spectre-Eighteen: 5/29/2024 6:51:55 AMOerhaps she knew she’d have to fight the neomuna cloud striders, who were able to keep Calus back, so stands to reason they could have fought her as well.
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1 ReplyThat sounds like a bad idea. You want to hide not one powerful thing, but the key to the powerful thing in the same place. If anyone got access to the throne world than nobody would be safe, like say Xivu breaks in for revenge and somehow used the Veil and Traveler for her own means. For example: Lets take a Bugatti, park it in central Los Angeles and leave the keys in the ignition and hope it doesn't end up in a chop shop, sorry, reputations and all that.
