JavaScript is required to use Bungie.net

#feedback

Edited by CarnivalLaw: 1/3/2017 5:44:46 PM
63

PvP in Destiny 2: Avoiding Destiny's Failures

TL;DR: Decisions made by Bungie for the sake of PvP balance have repeatedly affected PvE play for the worse. Thus, I suggest limiting the weapons available for use in PvP in Destiny 2, requiring little-to-no energy spent on PvP weapon balance. This is not meant as an end-all, be-all solution, but rather a suggestion for avoiding one of the biggest failures in the game: ruining PvE weapons for the sake of PvP balance, and the resulting animosity between the PvE and PvP Communities. An idea for PvP in Destiny 2: Weapon nerfs for the sake of PvP have defined Destiny, and have certainly contributed to its decline. They set the Community against itself, repeatedly exacerbating the entirely avoidable PvP versus PvE dichotomy. I hope Bungie can avoid a repeated mess with Destiny 2, and send the message to all of its players that PvE will not suffer from changes made to appease PvP players (I play both modes equally, btw). My suggestion for Destiny 2: Each month, the weapons used in The Crucible rotate, and are set by Bungie (or RNG or player voting) such that the same set of weapons - and only those weapons - are available to anybody playing PvP that month. I envision that one of each type of weapon would be available to choose from. You can use these weapons whether or not you have unlocked/received them previously in the game. No, you cannot take them with you (unless you already own them). Armor, grenades, abilities, etc. would not be limited; you can equip what you like. Trials of Osiris would adhere to the same weapon limitations. This would have the correlated benefit of leveling the playing field a bit in ToO. How much better than me are you when we're forced to use the same weapons that we may or may not have any experience with? I wonder. Private matches would not be affected by the monthly PvP weapon set. Hypothetical monthly PvP announcement from Bungie: “Ready yourselves, Guardians. Based on player voting last month, this month’s PvP weapons available for use are: Primary Weapons: Hawkmoon, Saterienne Rapier, Grasp of Malok, Shadow Price Special Weapons: 44 Curtain Call, The Wormwood, LDR 5001, The Vacancy Heavy Weapons: Ash Factory, The Swarm, Void Edge Choose your weapon and git gud (sorry, couldn’t pass it up!).” As I said, these are suggestions for avoiding the toxic mess that Bungie created by catering to PvP players at the expense of the PvE experience (as well as the PvP experience for many!). I don’t claim that this is THE solution, only that it sparks some discussion in a direction I haven’t seen explored much. Please join the discussion below. Thanks! Edit: It's fine if you think this is a horrible solution, but please suggest ways you think Bungie could avoid the trap they set - and fell into - using their current philosophy.
English
#feedback

Posting in language:

 

Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Pvp and Pve CANNOT co-exists, it destroyed this game!!! I can tell you this, I'm not shelling out the money for another destiny game if it's the same mess!!! My friends ask me what would I like to see in Destiny 2, simple answer. Elemental primaries, new exotics, more back story and NO trials or pvp!!!! It doesn't work, it ruined destiny and will ruin Destiny 2!!! The lagging, cheating, dos attacks, paid carries, weapon nerfs carried over to pve and the toxic attitude are all a result of pvp and trials!!! Sorry, but the same thing will happen to Destiny 2 if pvp is included!!!!

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    1 Reply
    • You basically want to turn this into halo cod... No bad law!

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      4 Replies
      • Goddamn that sounds terrible. You're saying the nerfs have ruined pvp essentially but now you want to add something that takes away from the best part of the game ? The whole thing that makes destiny more diverse from other fps' is the fact that you can choose from any weapon without being stuck to certain loadouts. I'm sorry, but this is an [b][i]awful[/i][/b] suggestion. Keeping players defined to loadouts just makes it your typical run of the mill fps.

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

        7 Replies
        • Just about the worst idea I've ever heard. I expected better from you. There is no balance issue in this game. It's a game of rock, paper, scissors. Everything has a counter to it.

          Posting in language:

           

          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

          3 Replies
          • Have weapons you earn for PvP and weapons earned for PvE. Can only be used in the game type you earned them.

            Posting in language:

             

            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

            3 Replies
            • This would be my strategy: Release 2 Games Destiny 2: PvE Edition Destiny 2: PvP Attention Deficit Disorder Edition

              Posting in language:

               

              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

              3 Replies
              • I would not purchase D2 if this was the case

                Posting in language:

                 

                Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                1 Reply
                • Edited by CryogenicEmbryo: 1/4/2017 6:38:17 PM
                  Sorry not enough. One white primary of each type. One white secondary of each type. One white heavy of each type. All with set perks that can not be changed. Infusable. There you go you all get the same weapons. As for classes for PVP you get set classes that can not be changed these are separate from PVE. That is the only solution as you PVP basterds have shown you can not have shiny things.

                  Posting in language:

                   

                  Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                • No sacrifices should be made by PvP for PvE and vice versa.

                  Posting in language:

                   

                  Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                  3 Replies
                  • I think the solution to keeping PvP in Destiny 2 from devolving into Destiny 1 realms is for Bungie to simply acknowledge some weapons will have advantages and that sometimes we'll need to overcome. I don't think set loadouts is the answer and goes against what makes Destiny PvP unique and fun in that we can play how we want with our own weapons

                    Posting in language:

                     

                    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                    4 Replies
                    • Do placement rewards and points for remaining in the game which we can trade in for engrams of our choice.

                      Posting in language:

                       

                      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                      3 Replies
                      • This is a terrible idea

                        Posting in language:

                         

                        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                        10 Replies
                        • I think they should just make buffs applying to the least used weapons. Two shot/burst kills with slowest RoF HC's and PR's, A reduction of flinch according to weapon type, Reduction of bloom on high RoF hand cannons and hawkmoon, A decent damage buff to Autos (Not too high, but not too low), increase to accuracy on Autos.

                          Posting in language:

                           

                          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                          1 Reply
                          • This idea is the start of destiny 2's downfall, great...

                            Posting in language:

                             

                            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                            2 Replies
                            • Edited by : ^ ): 1/3/2017 4:25:35 PM
                              I disagree. To fix the current Destiny PvP, you need a strong update to the Destiny servers. Currently there's 30/10hz servers and I feel like this leads to poor registration on top of the high TTK for most primary and it makes this game unplayable at times. ( Unplayable as in overly frustrating. ) Destiny 2 really needs an overhaul in terms of PvP experience if they want me to care about it. For Destiny 2, we need dedicated servers with a minimum of 30hz across the board, 60FPS, a ranked mode with SBMM, and an unranked social playlist without SBMM. As for weapons, I'd prefer if we kept the current method of bringing weapons into PvP the same. They are all normalized for PvP so there is no need to force sets.

                              Posting in language:

                               

                              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                              1 Reply
                              • A suggestion I made back in yr 1 was to have set vanilla weapons that you pick up from the Gunsmith. Each class of weapon would be available, but bland weapons. Just like the Gunsmith test weapons. You want to play Crucible? Then go see the gunsmith, select your weapons and play. Didn't like those, then go back and exchange them. I very much have to agree though with your statement. PvE suffered because of nerfs related to PvP. This should never happen.

                                Posting in language:

                                 

                                Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                                1 Reply
                                • I like the concept but I'm not sure I'd play it as much as I play now. Being able to grab any weapon out of my vault at any given point to run some Crucible is one of the things that keeps me going back. Bungie has failed miserably at balancing weapons imho. They didn't attempt to balance crucible, they just shifted the meta with willful intent so it seems. This has created the division between the pve and pvp crowd. Balance need not be about ttk or damage falloff. Making weapons function more reliably would go a long way towards balance than simply breaking a weapon class to lift another. They could remove bloom from hand cannons, stabilize autos, accurize scouts, and so forth and so on. Bungie needs to change their approach towards balance, plain and simple.

                                  Posting in language:

                                   

                                  Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                                  5 Replies
                                  • Let's do the same for PvE. Then nobody will ever have to complain that Fatebringer/Icebreacker/Gjallarhorn is too powerful. Oh, that's a shitty idea you say? Who would have thought that a game based around player customization is hamstringed when you removed it. If I wanted Halo I'd go play Halo. You fix the balance problem by a) waiting for Bungie to learn how to actually balance and b) not bitching about how every single change "ruins" something in PvE. Christ, with the way people complain you'd think PvE is literally unplayable. I've been doing an inordinate amount of PvE trying to level up my second account, and everything is generally fine. I'm certainly not sitting there, cursing the 10% PR nerf or the 4% AR nerf or even the Sniper flinch nerf. Not to mention how bullshit it would be if they rolled a set of terrible weapons. You wanted to have fun in PvP this month? Too bad, you've gotta use a Parthian Shot and an Occam's Razor. What joy.

                                    Posting in language:

                                     

                                    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                                    31 Replies
                                    • It's a cool idea, but it feels restrictive. Maybe a specific gametype where abilities and weapons are set for you, and you have to learn to adapt. 100% on the pvp/pve separation for weapon balancing though.

                                      Posting in language:

                                       

                                      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                                      10 Replies
                                      • This sounds like several steps in the right direction. I think it would be better if each match had its own layout. Also, removing the "One Exotic" rule from PvE would be cool.

                                        Posting in language:

                                         

                                        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                                        1 Reply
                                        • Your assuming that the sequel is going to be released straight away, and is not going to be Destiny Wars

                                          Posting in language:

                                           

                                          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                                          4 Replies
                                          • TOTALLY! Oh shit! We could do the same thing for PVE! You'd love that right? Only being able to use set loadouts in your strikes and raids? No perk deviation or special anything for your nightfall. Just your weekly bungie provided loadout. That'd make your pve experience awesome right?

                                            Posting in language:

                                             

                                            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                                            14 Replies
                                            • I like the options of using our own choice of weapons. There just needs to be less focus on meta and more balance for the choices we bring into it.

                                              Posting in language:

                                               

                                              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                                              1 Reply
                                              • Edited by CatMan: 1/3/2017 9:01:27 PM
                                                I really think it's possible for them to make the weapon behave differently in PvP. Perks, stats, ect should change in pvp. Maybe have PvP and PvE nods and depending on what you play the nod switches. If something is off about stats, or nod within in the nods they can fix it....idk. Edit: or they can do like every fps and separate PvP and PvE

                                                Posting in language:

                                                 

                                                Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                                                3 Replies
                                                • No PvP in Destiny 2 would be great. Bungie needs to focus all their attention on the story.

                                                  Posting in language:

                                                   

                                                  Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                                                  2 Replies
                                                  • Edited by bobswerski: 1/3/2017 9:16:43 PM
                                                    Interesting. Not a bad idea, per se, but I think one better used as a concept for a single playlist, not the entire game. Being different and offering a great deal of variety is what Destiny is all about. I'll say the same thing I say to people who want a no-super game mode: If that's really what you want maybe you are not playing the right game for you. And, honestly, the whole PvE vs PvP thing [b]is[/b] entirely avoidable because it's in large part [i]a made-up Bungie.net phenomenon[/i]. With the lone exception of changes to sniper rifles, [u]none[/u] of the major changes people complain about the most for PvE (nerfs and/or temporary removal of gjallarhorn and ice breaker, the loss of elemental primaries, lack of content, not updating VoG/CE, etc etc) were done for the sake of PvP. Not one.

                                                    Posting in language:

                                                     

                                                    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                                                    8 Replies
                                                    You are not allowed to view this content.
                                                    ;
                                                    preload icon
                                                    preload icon
                                                    preload icon