Ok in the recent events that transpired it seems the community is upset. But what are you upset about? Well quite a few things; the Warlock "nerf", the weapon rebalancing and Crucible changes. But lets talk about the issue everyone is upset about, the Warlocks. Now before I begin this discussion, I just want you to know I am not calling anyone stupid. It seems there is a tendency in this community to not look at all the facts and simply jump to conclusions. Let us discuss both sides of the claim.
Warlocks. We all know them as the magic users or the intellectuals of the game. They are said to be OP, but are they really? If anything they are the most well rounded class out of the 3. They were designed to use their abilities to defeat opponents. They have power coursing through them. Weapons are completely meaningless to them. But the thing everyone can't stand is the Sunsinger. Now before you jump to conclusions, lets look at the big picture here.
Let's take a normal player for example and this player is upset about the "nerf" to the Warlocks. He may say something like: "Where is the Warlock nerf? Why is Bungie siding with the Warlocks? F*ck Bungie!! Destiny is dead!!" well sorry normal player, Bungie isn't siding with the Warlocks. That may seen hard to believe but look at the facts. Bungie has charts, graphs, numbers and data on everything that happens in the game. All that data concluded that Warlocks are not OP. If anything they balanced. Now the purpose of Sunsingers is team support and denial of enemy shield recovery, hence the DoT. The whole subclass is based upon the DoT. If you take the DoT away, the subclass loses its purpose. What does the class have to work with after that? And I am going to agree with Bungie in saying that is true. The Sunsinger relys on the DoT effect. Without it, the subclass is nothing.
Now lets look at this from a designers perspective. A designer may be approached about the Warlock issue. They will then go into a test lab, in a controlled environment and test to see how everyone's complaints add up. The designer may say: "Hm. Some of these people are right. The DoT effect is really annoying" but as a designer, he has to keep in mind how the subclass was designed to play. He will likely say "Well the Sunsinger was built around the DoT effect. If people want the DoT effect to go away, that completely destroys the purpose of the subclass. And we can't fix it without completely redoing the subclass. But lets see how we can facilitate this and see what another problem is so we can keep the balance here." That is the perspective of a designer. They know how each class was built and how each subclass works. If people complain about 1 aspect, they need to see how everything can fit and if it can be improved, they see how it can be. But if it can't, then there really isn't much they can do except find another means of keeping balance.
Now we need to ask ourselves some serious questions, but before you answer these questions, you need to reflect on this and really think about it before you answer.
What is this community really upset about? Is this community upset because it didn't get what it wanted, or because Bungie had a logical reason for making the decision they made regarding Warlocks? What are you really upset about? My answer would be because you didn't get what you wanted. You wanted a nerf to Warlocks only to see that it can't exactly be done because of how they are built, you get upset because you didn't get the nerf you wanted.
No one will probably care about all this, but at least I made an attempt to help see the bigger picture here. I can only hope people can see that.
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1 ReplyI read the whole thing and I agree. But I am slightly biased because I main a warlock. But you do raise some good points.
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1 ReplyStfu stop defending laziness and a crutch class
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That was an excuse from bungie. Period.
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1 ReplyEverything you said in this post is rather reasonable and valid. However, I feel Bungie didn't really try to put much thought into possible reworks for Sunsinger at all. I feel there are simple solutions out there that just haven't been explored yet. My own thoughts are that Viking Funeral should have half of its current duration, but each tick does double damage. It still plays it's role in hindering enemy shield recovery, but in a much more reasonable way. It could also be beneficial in some cases to have the damage done in a quicker time, being a buff in that regard. Clearly DoT is a tricky thing to balance. Thorn is left behind in year 1, and is getting nerfed significantly harder than it was the first time. And this is for a weapon that everyone has access to. Only Sunsingers have access to a DoT on the scale of Viking Funeral. There's nothing else like it in the game. It's part of what makes them unique, I guess. Which is fine. But I don't think that's a reason to shun the community's thoughts. They should be more active in trying to make the DoT more reasonable to everyone. I'm not saying nerf it to the ground. It just needs tweaking.
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I'm predicting an inevitable cry for voidwalker nerfs
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3 RepliesSunsinger=Denial Bursa Voidwalker=Drover Bursa Stormcaller=Isolator Bursa
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4 RepliesMake Song of Flame an actual support super: increases allied damage and increases health regen for the duration of Radiance, and make Radiance last longer if no grenades are thrown. I'd hit dat.
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1 ReplyNo their purpose is self res not DoT. One of those things has to go.
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14 RepliesNerf -blam!-ing Sunsingers are the -blam!-ing cheese. 2 Sunsingers with Nemisis on and 5 discipline are -blam!-ing impossible to beat. Every single match I've had to face 2 or more Sunsingers, I lose. There's no -blam!-ing way to counter their shit. Their grenade doesn't make their class. Their -blam!-ing melee is the strongest in game. There's no way to beat a Sunsinger in a melee fight. Not even as a Titan; unless you shoulder charge them, which is impossible because they'll zone you with firebolts every 25 seconds. How the -blam!-ing world do you nerd the Thorn to shit, but keep a grenade that burns all your health away, kills recovery for a massive amount of time, and is up every 25 seconds per Sunsinger? It's just retarted. I'm sure many feel the way I do. This is complete bullshit.
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4 RepliesWHAT IS LOVE
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My main issue is how this wasn't an annoyance all of year one nor was it common to even see a sunsinger using firebolts it was more of a solar fusion year. The Taken King comes around and suddenly everyone is using bbq nades [b]literally every sunsinger I fought was using bbq nades[/b] I'm annoyed that's all I have to say on the matter
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2 RepliesHow would you guys feel about like a 3 damage tick, but for a sightly longer time, ending in less damage but longer time without regen?
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Bro I completely agree. I think those players complaining NEED to be more well rounded also like Try playing with different classes. Some ppl are just STUCK on 1 character which will hinder them from playing the game like Bungie intended. Every class flaws and strengths that CRYBABBIES won't try to take the time out to understand
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Holy shit. A well made and not biased post about warlocks. God damn its good to see people here that actually use their brain. I've accepted long ago that firebolts are not op, however I still think that its the most annoying and frustrating thing in pvp. But thats subjective, everyone has their banes
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9 RepliesData is meaningless unless interpreted properly. I have zero faith in Bungie's data analysts.
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I'm ok for the most part about warlocks, but flame shield should not activate on hit, but on kill. Titans don't activate their shield on hit (i main a titan obviously). Viking funeral (or touch of flame, not sure) should have the amount of ticks on the dot reduced similar to thorn, not a lot but just a little. Incendiary grenades, throwing knives and titans melee don't do as much dot as a warlocks' melee. Sorry for the rant; just an opinion.
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6 RepliesThat doesn't make any sense, the Sunbreaker was built around Hammer of Sol and is nerfed so hard that it's [b]hard[/b] to get kills with it. If Bungie treated every class the same they would've done something about Warlocks earlier but they didn't. Bungie prefers Warlocks, they nerfed all other classes except for any Warlock classes.
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3 RepliesSunsinger has been the same since Day1 of Destiny I have no idea why Bungie decided to Nerf it now of all times when they could've done so a long time ago. But anyway my favorite subclass is going to be doo doo a day from now I might just stick to the division.
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4 RepliesExcellent description of their point of view, I completely agree. But can I get some insight as to why they did this for warlocks with their subclass, but they affected titans sunbreaker subclass so hard, even though it is almost completely designed for the super, by looking at the subclass nodes
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1 ReplyThis is kind of right. Not saying this because I'm a Warlock, it's more of the community being salty over the no fire bolt nerfs.
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11 RepliesThe problem with sunsingers specifically isn't DOT itself. I'm al for Sunsingers having a bunch of DOT abilities. The issue is that the DOT is both long [i]and[/i] powerful. If the DOT is on a weapon, like the Thorn for instance, I would want it to have more power on the DOT rather than length - meaning 2 or 3 ticks of 4 or 5 damage. This keeps opponents from being able to regen but also does considerable damage. For a Sunsinger I think the DOT should be long, but not so powerful. Add one or two ticks, but drop the damage down and you would have more balance. I love the idea of DOT, but you have to have a balance of damage/power which the Sunsingers clearly do not have.
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4 RepliesI still don't agree with fire bolts, they are too good compared to the rest of their grenades
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Go hunters
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All it needs is what they did for the thorn, reduce the damage per tick and that's it still has the time just overall damage.
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I think the community needs a little more salt in the barrel
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3 RepliesSo lemme get this straight, you are defending Bungie's decisions [i][b]and[/b][/i] providing your reasoning both thoughtfully and civilly? I thought your kind disappeared in the collapse...