"[b]Silver introduced, can be purchased for real money and spent on emotes[/b] "Guys, they're JUST emotes! And Kotaku is reporting that we're going to get free DLC in the future! And emotes are great! Look, I'm clapping!" [b]SRL introduced, non-emote in-game items available for Silver[/b] "Guys, it's JUST sparrows and unique cosmetic armor pieces! What's the big deal? It's not even like the armor can be used in the rest of the game!" [b]$30 level booster packs introduced, featuring Spark of Light and automatic max subclass consumable[/b] "Guys, it's JUST level 25 plus a maxed subclass! What's the big deal? It's not like it gets you into the raid! I mean, yeah, sure, it completely mitigates the most monotonous part of the leveling grind, and they did nerf subclass progression by 33%, but I'm sure that's unrelated! Or actually a good thing! More content! Right? Yeah! Definitely not something to worry about! And who would pay $30 anyway! [b]Free DLC!" Activision tells press that microtransactions and paid DLC can and will co-exist[/b] "Guys, this is a good thing! I actually want to pay for DLC, because ... quality! Nevermind the fact that I've spent the last three months as a loyal slack-jawed drone, actively shouting down anyone who either predicted this would happen or suggested that perhaps we should critically examine where exactly the microtransaction thing leads all of us! So long as I can speculate without any substantiation about where my money is going, I'm happy! Plus, microtransactions means we'll also get more events! And I love events, even though they've all been empty, dissatisfying cash grabs! Emotes! Purely cosmetic!" [b]Sterling Treasures with infusable armor, experience boosters, and cosmetic rewards introduced[/b] "Guys, it's JUST cosmetic armor that ... errr, well, it has rolls, and it can actually be used in-game, and this is a game where acquiring loot is the endgame, and they've essentially just introduced an endaround via real money, and there are also experience boosters that get you more gear quicker from factions, but ... cosmetics! Or something ... Stop complaining! Free update! LDR!" lots of hand waving Why would Acitivison and Bungie stop this train? The slobbering idiots on this sub and elsewhere are more than happy to justify every new integration of the mobile game pay scheme, despite having railed against it only a month earlier. Why stop? People here deserve the shakedown." https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/4cn7px/id_like_to_address_microtransactions/

The items you receive from the packages have random rolls. Just keep buying until you get the perfect rolls. Perfect rolls are a competitive advantage. A competitive advantage will help you achieve more frequent victories, so how can you say with a straight face that this isn't a pay to win situation? This is more like buying breast implants for Barbie, not a summer dress. With those breast implants she has a competitive advantage at the Club.

Here's the path to Pay-to-Win in this update... You have an item with meh stats. You can buy the same item with better stats. You take your "meh" item and infuse it at the 100% rate into the god roll. With a monetary purchase you just bought an advantage. Lay that against your definition.

So I've waited a bit to reply to this. At a low level I agree that they've designed this scenario to not give a player a 'large' advantage. However I disagree that they are 100% cosmetic. They are [b]usable [/b]in game items. Usable against other players. Pay to win has a very simplistic High level definition that is undeniable. It's when you can pay for a [b]usable [/b]in game item before someone can earn it in game. In this case it's not a only shaders, ships, an emotes. Things that actually have [b]Zero [/b]impact on stats or abilities. The Advantage you can gain from this purchase is a subset of the definition. It's the usability of the item that is the important part. Some here may have seen my stance on the debates of Wareframe P2W. While I can applaud the developers there that the gear that you can purchase is the same that you can grind for in game these are still usable in game items. Buying them ginve you the advantage of having them way quicker than the grind. I completely understand that this advantage is very low. Some say non-exsistent but I don't agree because it is there. Same can be applied here. The Armor you get from the boxes in and of itself are NOT cosmetic. They are usable and have their own perks. Perks that we've seen before so nothing unique but their own perks nonetheless. So not 100% cosmetic. Therefor is falls into the Pay to win definition. Some call it Pay to Skip or whatever but this isn't content, it's gear. I think that Bungie is riding as much of the line as they can without going full P2W. I think they've looked it over and decided that even though these are usable items, they've crafted it in such a way that the advantage of doing so seems nill. It seems there are enough activities to do to be able to obtain plenty of boxes so I don't feel enough people will be dropping dime on this when they are easily obtained in game. Time will tell if this is abused enough to really make a difference.

Point invalid because the armor isn't just cosmetic, the SRL book armor was cosmetic, the new stuff is not just cosmetic.

They are not all cosmetic items, there are armor sets that have perks and reputation boosters that let you rank up factions faster which gets you more packages that could have great stuff or at least things you can dismantle into legendary marks which you can buy other legendary items with. It's pay for power.

[b][i][u]I posted this as a reply to a guardian below. When I say "you", I'm talking about any guardian reading this with the mindset that Destiny is now "Pay to Win".[/u][/i][/b] The armor drops without INT/DIS/STR, and said bought armor is unable to have those stats unless you infuse a piece of armor with those stats into said bought armor. Having extra ammo for weapons puts you at no advantage, nor does being able to reload a weapon just as quick as people who earned their gear can. Also, said bought gear can also be earned! At the least, you could have a full set of this armor in two days. You get on Monday, play the weekly crucible game mode [i]once[/i], (You don't even have to win, just complete the match) and play level 41 PoE [i]once[/i]. You automatically get one package a week from the postmaster, so that's a third piece of armor. So you get on, play two activities, and get off. You get on again Tuesday after reset, and again, play the weekly crucible game mode [i]once[/i], and play level 41 PoE [i]once[/i]. If anything, you're paying for a disadvantage unless you have gear (That you earned) to infuse into it. Sure, you can buy these packages to get the Reload/Ammo/Perks you desire, but you still need infusion fuel to bring said gear up to a viable level. I can get the same gear you bought with the same stats from playing the game. The only difference is, I don't have to earn infusion fuel later, because I already earned it while I was playing the game! I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. I'm still recovering from last night, (Shit was absolutely crazy) so this whole post may not make sense. But I hope I showed you how the game [b]isn't[/b] "Pay to Win". Have a good day/night guardian! Oh, and SO to OP for being a logical human being. He was a dick trying to prove his point, but still.

The boxes have armor with different rolls, so I could buy a bunch of boxes till I got, arms with grenade throw distance, sniper reload, chest with increased arc armor (for Titan) and sniper ammo, boots with shotgun ammo, something with arc armor, helmet with something really strong, and all of them have intellect discipline easily. This is not cosmetic and can cause a huge diff in the way this game will b played. -blam!- you bungie, uve lied to us yet again

Pay 2 Win will never, ever, ever, ever affect me in this game because I will never purchase Pay 2 Win items. Also, I do not care if someone else buys their gear. No fûcks to give about how someone else acquired their gear. However, it's easy to justify a decision if you put it in a vacuum and take nothing else into account. Sure, if we [b]ONLY[/b] look at this latest creation in the Eververse market and pretend nothing else exists then it could be said that everyone is overreacting and Bungie is not implementing Pay 2 Win. But that's not how this works. Bungie has continually moved the line in the sand about what they would be willing to sell for real world cashy money and what's off limits. Like I said, Pay 2 Win will never affect me because I'm not spending real world money on ingame gear. But let's not pretend Bungie isn't moving closer and closer to what they said they would never do. It's not like these assholes haven't played the word game with us before.

Do you guys understand how genius this is from a money making standpoint? Bungie has found a really solid way to make some easy money AND keep people playing thier game. Offer a new pay for new gear system to supplement the in game Loot drop system, but limit the in game drops to 3, keep pay for gear unlimited. Make the gear come in at super low level that requires infusion. Infusion requires grind. To make the purchase seem viable to the consumer, revise your infusion system at that same time. Obviously the much needed change had been saved for a financial gain. Despite months of pleas from the community lamenting the unfairness of the light level drops, the needed grind to max out thier light, and horrible return on investment during which you do Nothing. Nothing. Not even an acknowledgement that your player base is begging for a change. By dragging out the change, you've created a situation where your customer base is so happy to FINALLY get a fix to that horrible system that paying money for gear to drop at a shit level seems like no big deal beacuse "Hey! We can infuse it right up to max light right away! I just need to go grind some gear for infusion fuel! That gear is new, looks cool and might RNG me a good roll or color I really want! Wow this great!" Time and money spent. Bungie gets the revenue and the grind hours to show they are stil a powerhouse in the market. All for not all that much overhead. Thier return on investment on this will be through the roof. -blam!-ing genius.... Those Assholes!!! I can't wait to see how Bungie takes advantage of a shitty game mechanic to earn some $$ on the next DLC.

"Pay to progress" or "Pay to become a showoff douche" is more accurate

[quote]There's is absolutely ZERO competitive advantage gained from these boxes, they're 100% cosmetic.[/quote] Sorry, but this isnt correct. You can buy "vanity armor" with random perks and stats. You can keep buying until you get exactly what you want and infuse it with any piece of gear. If this is OK, what prevents them from adding vanity weapons to the packages with random perks and stats later? You could keep buying the packages until you get a god roll sniper. BAM: pay for the best perks.

[b]Post edit: ***Sols informed me the str/int/disc is 0/0/0 respectively. Therefore I've left this post as part of the threads discussion, however there's no need for me to continue this comments discussion, as "if" bought gear that needs infusing for its int/str/disc to be generated, those bonuses are not generated at purchase therefore ends my discussion on the matter folks. ;)[/b] [i][u]Original comment[/u][/i]: Hey man no disrespect I gotta disagree. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fpDRyBX8bQ&sns=em The problem with this scenario is it introduces the ability to benefit/win against players without a guarantee for every encounter. If you have a chestpiece on a pvp player who supers faster than you because of 100 intellect, and he beats you in pvp...chestpiece was found in game. Not bought as a microtransaction. If you have a chestpiece on a pvp player who supers faster than you because of 100 intellect, and he beats you in pvp...chestpiece was bought as a microtransaction. You just lost to a bought item. There really isn't a grey area. It does introduce "pay to win". It's just situational. If the stuff can be bought, has incremental bonuses on it that when the item is in play against any player and those purchased bonuses weigh in on the outcome of any pvp, the player who bought the bonus did spend money via microtransaction for a bonus that provided a win. ;)

It's not P2W, but I still don't like it.

Wrong

The roll of the armor that drops is random, yessss? But if you are willing to pay for it, you can buy armor until you get the roll you want. More costly of money, but less of time. Less of griiiiind. But a glimps of the pay-to-win to come.