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6/6/2015 7:38:23 AM
457
Convince me Thorn Should Be Nerfed. I'll grade your argument.
Two possible grades:
Pass or Fail.
There's no appealing the grade once it has been finalized.
English
#Destiny
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Because titties
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When most of the community use the thorn and don't use over weapons in their arsenal their is a definite problem.
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Because nerf guns are fun as shit to play with and if they made one in Thorn's design I'd buy twenty.
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I used thorn a while back when it first became actually good and i thought "wow this is a great gun." But i dont use it anymore because its too easy to outgun it with so many other things. I primarily use TLW because it kills so much faster. No one complains about the three body shot last word because not everyone uses it. Thorn isn't anywhere near OP. You give a crap player a thorn and its still a crap player. Thorn is simply popular because its easy to use. [b]Here's a scenario:[/b] You run into a control match and two, maybe three guys on the opposing team are using thorn. Probably in a party and decided to match guns. So you go in and maybe grab a couple kills in your first life and get killed by thorn. You didnt catch the guys name, just that whoever it was killed you with thorn. So you go through the match and get killed nine times with thorn. At the and of the game, you see you have twelve deaths. Your first thought is "nine of those times, i died to thorn." So you think one guy got those nine kills on you but in actuality, it was three different players that only got three kills on you. No one picks up thorn and immediately becomes the best at pvp. Its not that good. It is [b]not[/b] OP.
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1 ReplyI don't think it needs it that bad. The only thing I'd change is that the DOT shouldn't kill you. I'm fine with it burning and hurting you and delaying your shields from coming back but it shouldn't be able to kill you.
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Too many scrubs. True story
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This is what you all are saying "nerf the thorn because I'm to bad to counter it" lol
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1 ReplyBecause it makes my precious hawkmoon irrelevant. Why use a gun that two shots occasionally when you can use thorn and two shot every time while putting those shots down faster and with more stability.
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My only issue is why folks use it in regular crucible... I understand using it in trials or iron banner, where winning is a must, but in regular crucible? Come on. Try other weapons. That's why it's there, to hone your skills. Not to do the same repetitive thing over and over.
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When a majority of iron banner and ToO players use the same game, it's not because they like the way it looks it's because they want kills and an OP weapon will get them kills. If 9 out of 12 people use it in Iron banner every match that would mean 75% of the pvp players for that match are using the same gun which has DoT and final round. The only gun that I know that had the high of a usage was Suros before it got hacked to death. Almost everyone would use it Iron banner 1.0, 2.0 because it was OP as shit (I used it too). I use thorn also in trials because I know I can hit someone two times and run away and wait it out. The gun is overpowered but a nerd would be simple, take away another DoT tick and get rid of final round.
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Edited by Ronin Tanuki: 6/11/2015 12:25:34 AMGrade? That's quite funny. Pray tell, what makes you qualified to assess the arguments presented? In spirit of the post, however, I'll answer the prompt. Thorn is OP because it's single shot damage outclasses all other primary weapons in the game at any range. It can aso kill in just three body shots. This makes it the most effective team oriented weapon. Usually, no weapon other than a special or heavy can send a players health bar into the red in a single shot. (Exotics that can be equipped in the primary slot, such as NLB, can be an exception, though). It takes multiple shots to lower a player's shield and a few more to kill (or one headshot). This is even more applicable when the weapon is used outside of its intended range. Thorn, however, will send a player's heath bar into the red with a single shot. In fact, as long as the shot hits, it will do so from any range. It doesn't matter whether the player was hit in the head or the foot, his entire shield is gone. To add insult to injury, said player will sustain three full seconds of secondary "bleed" damage and his shield won't begin regenerating until it stops. Effectively, a single shot from thorn can keep a guardian's shield down for about six full seconds (3 seconds of bleeding + 3 seconds for the recharge to kick in). The benefit of this is apparent, a weakened guardian is easier to kill. By landing a single thorn shot you've helped your team succeed. The Thorn can also kill a guardian in only three body shots. One shot defeats the shield and the next two will kill (in combination with the bleeding). Alternatively, scoring two headshots will kill the target even quicker. For this reason, it is no surprise that Thorn is the most popular choice of weapon for Trials of Osiris. Three people running Thorns team shooting a single target is, effectively, an instant kill and every shot that hits is a boon to your team (I.e., because of the weakening).
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It doesn't need a nerf
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It's the map design that makes people think thorn and shotguns are OP. The maps are made for close quarters combat with tight hallways and small rooms. This kind of design makes Thorn and The Last Word the dominant weapons. But, that's just my take on it.
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1 ReplyI need a break.
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Replace send it with literally anything and you're good
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Hand cannons need to be left alone before they ruin it like the AR
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1 ReplyIn my opinion the only argument that can pass is none, because thorn shouldn't be nerfed this is coming from a non-thorn user
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1 ReplyThorn, The Last Word and Hawkmoon - they're all far too effective at range. They don't need a damage nerf they need a range nerf. There are videos galore on YouTube showing any one of these weapons killing at scout rifle range and competing with them at range. This should not happen. I don't mind what weapon kills me, but when it's a hand cannon wielded by someone at an obscene range that's a problem.
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Chicken and salsa
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Well I haven't played this game since Xmas. When I took this break the Thorn was about the worst in the game. I never did the bounty to get it because it was crap. I've been back 2 days and IT'S ALL THAT I DIE BY. So seeing both sides of the gun its OP now.
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Thorn shoots green right? I'm pretty sure that the color green is 57% related to lucifer and evil n stuff, therefore should be nerfed or somethin.
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55 RepliesEdited by a clumsy scrub: 6/7/2015 7:03:39 PMDPS Ranges (tested on level 2 enemies. Follows this formula: critical damage x bullets fired per second) Auto rifles: 597-700 Pulse rifles: 693-761 Scout rifles: 795-821 Hand cannons: 1010-1440 (1440 is the last word while aiming, i could tell you the potential DPS while hipfiring, but its a lot to take in, and I cant find my notes right now.) Close range: Auto rifle Pulse rifle Scout rifle Vs Hand cannon -hand cannon wins Medium range: Pulse rifle Auto rifle Scout rifle Vs Hand cannon -hand cannon wins Long range: Scout rifle Pulse rifle Vs Hand cannon -scouts and pulse rifles win (but theres very few long range engagements in crucible, and its too easy for a hand cannon user to run.) [b]I actually believe every hand cannon should be nerfed, or everything else should be buffed. The damage per second difference is too great between hand cannons and the rest (821-1010 to be more precise). Also, auto rifles shouldnt be the lowest DPS when they have to compete with hand cannons in close range. The argument of auto rifles being easier to use is invalid. It is equally as hard to land consistent headshots with an auto rifle as it is with a hand cannon. With your enemy strafing, it might be easier to just squeeze the trigger as your reticle passes the targets head, rather than holding the reticle there for a couple seconds with an auto rifle.[/b] Edit How about a 1.5% hand cannon damage nerf overall, and after further testing, adjust the exotics? Wish I was capable of applying for a job a bungie, or could at least have a small chat with a dev. Even if he just told me to shut up because I'm an idiot. Then I could give up, knowing nothing will ever be done.
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It shouldn't be nerfed so there is no winning argument
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1 ReplyI own thorn and love it, but in reality, I know it should be nerfed. Thorn can kill very quickly, and DoT prevents the target from regenerating health. Also, thorn users such as me use the DoT to spot players through walls. Thorn is op, and needs to be nerfed, even though I enjoy using it.
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It shouldn't
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I don't have a thorn and its op in pvp people overuse it.other exotics are underpowered compared to it (well, the ones I have at least) I don't think it should be fully nerfed just the damage over time should be decreased since people can usually miss/dodge the killing blow and the damage over time gets the kill. Hand cannons are the most balanced weapons in the game but people who have last word or other hand cannons need some skill compared to thorn which requires just being able to hit the first one or two shots and leaving it to the DoT. So imo I dislike it because of the DoT and its overuse in pvp and it degrades other exotics and don't get me started on the range since i mostly get killed from scout rifle rang. Tell me what you think.
