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8/30/2019 3:22:22 AM
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People would use them more often if they actually competed against shotguns. I like playing with rat king for instance, it's fun to get a kill, go invisible, pop out on an enemy and kill them too. But, that is extremely rare when all you see is every scrub dipshit player in this game use a shotgun that ohk you from 40 feet away. By the time you get two rounds out, you die instantly. You can put the sub machine gun (forgot the name right now) Again, it's fun to use, but by the time you get someone half health. you die instantly to a shotgun.
Exotics don't need a buff, shotguns just need a nerf or to be removed from pvp all together. The only shotgun in pvp should be chaperon. It's damn good, but it misses a lot. It also requires the user to actually sort of arm at the head to proc a ohk.
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I think he means better exotics in general not singled down to pvp exclusively. Like in PVE for instance yes you can use anything, but compared to a normal legendary like a small handful can actually differentiate in power. We need more vex mythoclasts or touch of malice weapons that are unique and earn the exotic title. We literally have two guns that do the same thing swapping all elements and both can boost damage.. tarrabah is literally a neutered recluse because the perk requires you to deal and take damage in way more of a time frame than recluse, and CANNOT be used in combination with other weapons like recluse can.
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[quote]People would use them more often if they actually competed against shotguns. I like playing with rat king for instance, it's fun to get a kill, go invisible, pop out on an enemy and kill them too. But, that is extremely rare when all you see is every scrub dipshit player in this game use a shotgun that ohk you from 40 feet away. By the time you get two rounds out, you die instantly. You can put the sub machine gun (forgot the name right now) Again, it's fun to use, but by the time you get someone half health. you die instantly to a shotgun. Exotics don't need a buff, shotguns just need a nerf or to be removed from pvp all together. The only shotgun in pvp should be chaperon. It's damn good, but it misses a lot. It also requires the user to actually sort of arm at the head to proc a ohk.[/quote] Side arms need a buff and range increase. I love my an autumn and trans theory. I feel they are outdone by fusions by a long shot right now
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Side arms!!! Yes.
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[quote]Side arms!!! Yes.[/quote] Yes << I wish they would make them slay shotgun bum rushers . I tired of shotgun heavy metas. I don’t care how many PVE enemies die painful shot gun deaths but crucible needs a refreshing break from em. Side arms would be amazing and requiring more than a trigger pull would be amazing.
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Chaperone is incredibly easy to use and has -blam!- amounts of aim assist to the point you can slide headshot with it. Shotguns are not a problem people just chase or refuse to smoke them out with grenades or numbers. I bet you everytime you got killed it was either a camper or a stompee hunter. The only shotgun I feel needs to be toned waaay down is drb no shotgun that shoots pellets should ohk as far as it does.
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Shotguns aren't the problem. Shotguns were nerfed on TWENTY-THREE times in Destiny 1....and the complaining didn't stop until Bungie basically starved them of ammo. The problem in PVP has ALWAYS been the fact that there is a MISMATCH between the speed at which Guardians can move...and the TTK of primary weapons. IOW, Bungie has always tried to match one of the fastest moving characters in shooters....with one of the slowest TTKs.... ...and it just doesn't WORK from a design standpoint. Nerfing shotguns doesn't work, because the problem isn't the range that a shotgun can OHK from. The problem is THE GROUND THAT A GUARDIAN IN PVP CAN COVER...WHILE YOU'RE TRYING TO KILL THEM WITH A PRIMARY. In the Crucible, people will literally just run at you in a straight line from 60 yards away....face-tanking primary fire the whole way....then slide into shotgun range and OHK. So the EFFECTIVE range of a shotgun is EXTENDED by the distance a player can cover in the 0.8 to 1.0 secs it takes for a primary weapon to kill this game. Nerf shotguns by a yard (the average OHK range for a shotgun is about 8 yds in game distance)....and all that happens is the shotgun rusher gets ONE YARD CLOSER...before he starts his rush ...and nothing changes. The only way you're going to rein in shotguns and make them situational weapons is by REDUCING the TTK and allowing primaries to kill faster. TTK needs to be reduced to about 0.6 seconds like it was in vanilla D1. Where you could stand your ground and fight off a shotgun ape with your primary. But that ability was taken away in the winter of 2015...and has never been given back. Allow primaries to kill faster, and all the complaints about shotguns will go away.
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What they need to do with shotguns is decrease their handling by a large amount. Much like the legend of acrius, it takes time to swap in and out. All shotguns should have this to give people enough time to counter it if they feel like it.
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Edited by TripleJ: 8/30/2019 11:42:39 AMI think a distance modifier would work better on certain primary types like smgs and auto rifles. Once a target moves closer than mid range the weapon's damage ramps up the closer they get to you. One of the smg archetypes have a similar effect which they could expand on for all automatic weapons.
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SMGs weren't a weapon class when I decided on 0.6 secs being the ideal TTK. They probably need to be allowed to kill faster than that because of their limited range, and how close tthey are to shotgun range. But 0.8 secs is just too slow to enforce any sort of meaningful range limitations. Its also too slow (at high level play) for 1v1s to be conclusive. There is just too much time to run away from a losing fight. Which also contributes to team shooting and special weapon spamming, as players try to force a conclusion before their target can escape.
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ohk range for a shotty should be 5-10 feet and a miss (armor stops it) any other range imo. but thats probably too hard to program.
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Not hard to program. The problem is it would make the weapon unusable. That's MELEE range. You'd simply break the weapons doing that. Its also unrealistic. A slug shotgun---in real life---can easily kill at 50 yrds...and can kill in the hands of a skill shooter at up to 100 yds. Buckshot (IIRC) is lethal at up to 25 to 30 yds. The OHK range in Destiny 2 is EIGHT yards.
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nerfing shotguns (and maybe fusions slightly - otherwhise they will become the new shotguns as you see on console already) would greatly benefit weapon variety
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No it wouldn't. All that would happen is snipers would step into the vacuum....and we'd be back to the campy team shooting meta of Year 1.
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team shooting > Shotguns btw teamshooting is the META today too so I don't quite understand what you mean
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Edited by TheArtist: 8/30/2019 12:10:06 PMDisagree. I can outplay and outsmart a single player with a shotgun. As a solo player there is very little counterplay to being team shot...other than to mob up and team shoot as well. As a result the game quickly becomes very narrow, very predictable and very boring. Which is why one of the biggest complaints is solo players having to take on stacked teams, and getting routinely pub stomped. Team shooting ISN"T the meta today...which is why people are hear complaining about shotguns....and trying to Erentil nerfed. The return of special weapons to the game has opened up the game. Made it faster..less predictable.....and allowed for a wider variety of play styles compared to Year 1. But shotguns always piss off people who like to play more passively, because shottys can force them into having to counter aggressive play. Snipers always piss off people who like to play aggressively, because snipers can lockdown lanes and limit player movement options....forcing them to play more passively. While fusion rifles can piss off both.
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The SMG youre thinking of is recluse and it isnt effective against shotguns except in the luckiest of situations. Fusions are currently the only hard counter to shotguns
