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Edited by Solargeo:
7/13/2018 3:20:54 PM
29
Change my Mind on Pay 2 win . Updated
To me pay 2 win is where to win you need to pay, like i've been told of a game where if you pay for a weapon with money it gets 500% in stat bonus while a grinded for version gets you like 10% at best.
That type of shit is pay to win.
Go on try and change my mind, because some of you screw balls think paying to skip a grind that is reasonable in game is pay 2 win.
Ok to clarify it better, Take Warframe, Lets say you bought the Opictor and your friend grinded it , you pay for the slot and tato in the price, but your friend had to just put a tato in and maybe sell a crappy gun or sell a few p parts. b
ut after you both have it and max level it they are they exact same gun. sure dmg may variy depending on build and mod ranks but thats hardly worth of counting.
Thats NOT p2w.
my example of a weapon that has such superior stats that in either pve or pvp skill can't or barely match not having it. being cash shop only is p2w
English
#Gaming
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P2w is only for items you cannot grind for and are only obtainable through microtransactions
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Pay to win Say you and your friend start at the same time You pay to get stuff before him Then you 1v1 him because you have the better gear while he has default You win So therefore it is pay to win
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P2w is where you can pay money to make yourself more powerful in a game without actually playing. Therefore, Warframe is p2w. However, most of the p2w aspects in Warframe just let you skip a bunch of grinding (basically saving time) as opposed to skipping genuinely difficult gameplay encounters which would be worse.
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Warframe is pay2win fact
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2 RepliesPay2Win is a general term meaning if you pay you are given an advantage over those who did not. This can mean many things to in many situations. Pay2Win in Warframe is done through time savers (buying stuff directly) and upgrades (Warframe slots and such). This doesn't get you stuff that makes you better then others but it allows you to progress to endgame faster. People can also trade the bought currency for pretty much anything that you grind for, which is essentially is paying someone to grind for you. Those who grind to trade for platinum essentially are grinding for someone else so they can buy stuff that makes it easier to grind for someone else.
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You pay money to play video games. That's simply how it is. How much you decide to put into 1 game out of many is up to the individual.
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6 RepliesI feel stupider for having spent 15 minutes reading through the responses in here. It’s a made up phrase. It shouldn’t matter if you can pigeonhole Warframe into its definition. Just look at what WF does, and decide if that sounds good or bad; the definition is irrelevant. Warframe, as I understand it, allows you to buy various items that other players spent a considerable amount of time grinding to get. That’s a shitty practice imo. It incentivizes paying, rather than playing.
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1 ReplyIn my opinion, “pay to win” refers to spending real money to get an advantage over other players who don’t pay. There are varying degrees of severity, ranging from such a tiny advantage that it doesn’t really matter to completely dominating anyone who hasn’t also purchased the item. “Pay to skip” is somewhere in the middle there, but if you have two people with the same amount of playtime on a pay to skip game, the person who paid [i]will[/i] have an advantage, and thus as far as I’m concerned, it’s pay to win. But frankly, I’d rather you stand by your beliefs than cave into peer pressure, so you’re free to view it however you want. I may disagree, but both of our opinions are equally valid.
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3 RepliesPay to win is gay. And so are microtransactions like your Warframe one.
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Destiny 2 well tge Korean version is about to be that. I'm very interested in how it's gonna turn out tho.
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Buying warframes and weapons is not P2W because they all start at level 0 just like if you were to farm for them, but I would say leveled up mods or boosters could be, but because it's mostly a co-op game it doesn't matter as much. Everyone would benefit if someone paid money to get level up mods because that person would have potentially better damage and would help everyone else by being able to last longer in survival, defense or any other mission.
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16 RepliesIf you gain a tangible advantage through direct purchases, it's pay-to-win—whether singleplayer or multiplayer. It doesn't matter how "reasonable" it is; pay-to-win is pay-to-win. Sometimes it's implemented better than others, but almost always other practices are preferable.
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19 RepliesMy understanding is that Pay-to-Win refers to being able to spend real money for an [i]advantage[/i] over non-paying players, and this is not exclusive to PvP. Using your example of Warframe, I would say that is P2W, because you're paying for the time-based advantage. You could spend hours (possibly spanning several days) grinding for materials, and then have to wait for the actual building process, or you could just spend a few bucks and have it immediately with the weapon slot and potato. Even buying Credit/Affinity/Drop Boosters are P2W, because they reward you twice as much as the non-paying players. This is coming from someone who actually loves Warframe, and has spent some money on it (I wanted to show my support)
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5 RepliesP2W [b]does not[/b] apply to single player/cooperative experiences.
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2 RepliesEdited by djtanng: 7/13/2018 9:40:49 PMI can actually go as far as saying that cosmetic only microtransactions make a game p2w. Reason being because cosmetics were traditionally rewarded for winning at a game. Now that you can buy them, the grind for those same cosmetics is extra time consuming and artificially made that way to encourage sales. So if unlocking cosmetics is "winning" to you, then games like Overwatch can actually be considered p2w from that point of view.
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If you can buy anything that makes you stronger or gives you any in game advantage at all it’s pay to win. If I play clash Royale for over a year and have 2 cards max level and am at 4,500 trophies but some guy picks it up tomorrow spends $1,000 and has all maxed cards and then gets 5,000 trophies- that’s pay to win.
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17 RepliesEdited by [ＳiＮ]大き氷: 7/13/2018 8:37:29 PMThere shouldn't even be a debate or discussion about this. The phrase is quite clear in its use of language. Did you spend money? Yes. Did your success suddenly trend upward without question after the fact? Yes. Pay to win. Interpreting it in any other fashion is just being an idiot.
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Warframe is pay2win fact
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3 RepliesSee now I have an issue with paying to skip said grind. I miss the days where everyone had to unlock things the same way. That dude with the awesome helmet? You knew immediately how he got it, and if the task was challenging. Now you see people with awesome gear and wonder.. did he mindlessly grind for it or drop real money for it? If it were up to me, I would disclose if gear was bought via real money. So if someone inspects your character they can see if you actually earned it or not. "Purchased via microtransactions."
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7 RepliesBecause all free to play games on Mobile also allow you to grind for those "premium" items so you can get premium gear or just buy them. What is the difference between mobile games and Warframe then besides the gatcha? Answer There is no difference.
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Well if you wanna good money spending simulator type game try warframe
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4 RepliesIf paying real money greatly speeds up the procedure of gaining a powerful piece of gear or equipment, it's still pay to win. For example, imagine if you could buy a gjallarhorn for £€$10 in Destiny. That's pay to win, even though you can get the weapon by just playing the game.
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1 ReplyThe problem is what exactly constitutes “reasonable”.
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Firstly, it’s pay to win, not pay 2 win. Pay 2 win sounds like a bad EA game XD
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I would say there is a bit of wiggle room, especially since there isnt any kind of concrete definition for everyone to go by. Pay to win is one of those things where we will never have a definition that everyone agrees on, and really that is ok. One might argue that the packages you could purchase in battle field 3 that gave you every perk for a class/vehicle, without having to do anything more to get them, is pay to win. While others such as yourself can argue it is just skipping the grind and that is not paying to win. It is kind of impossible to argue either way, mainly because for some depending on how much of a grind is being skipped they feel it is way to big of an advantage. Coming in day one in battle field with tanks and jets that have all the best weapons because you payed for it seems a little pay to win for me personally. It is definitely paying to get a distinct advantage early on in the game, which can easily lead to your team winning games that they otherwise might not.
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8 RepliesI'm guessing this is salt over Warframe being labelled as pay2win. But seriously we could have insults flying back and forth between the ("p2w is only when I can auto win a match", "p2w is only when you pay for premium gear", "p2w is when you can buy items with real money in an online game", ect) groups but what would be the point. It's very unlikely that people will change their mind and at most (like with this thread) you'll end up looking like you're unable to take another's opinion. It's better just to accept it and have a discussion about what paying money gets you and if and how you spent money.
