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#feedback

Edited by Eriena: 10/9/2017 11:29:53 PM
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Real talk: Trials of the Nine IS broken

I’m a 32 year old professional. I have a deep understanding of trends, statistics, goals, and direction. It’s what I do to allow me to afford Destiny, related gear, the connection to other Destiny players, etc. With that said, I understand that Trials of the Nine represents the pinnacle of crucible competition. I will still plainly state that Trials of the Nine is broken. No, shattered. Actually, it feels like an alpha product in the middle of a final AAA release. Here are the facts I base this statement upon: 1. Bungie, thank you for providing an API for sites to collect and analyze performance stats. It encourages me and my group to seek improvement. This tool allows for certain claims to be quantified. 2. I am a good player, but not top 1% by any means. I would put myself in the top 25% based on Destiny 1 experience and Destiny 2 (broken) experience. 3. This week, with Trials being survival, it illustrates this point well: I play crucible occasionally... approximately 15-20% of my Destiny 2 playtime. In the survival game mode, I win approximately 69% of the time, and operate with a 1.46 KDA. My clan is comprised of other players roughly equal to my skill. However, when we engaged Trials of the Nine, we were met with some completely absurd matchups... 4. Weeks 1-3: 22 total matches, 29% win (6 matches ever won). Most notably, I was matched against Zympyy (Rank 96 overall for wins with 449 as of October 9, 2017) and comparable players. I don’t understand how this matchup makes sense even in the context of competitive gameplay. Zympyy is great. He is like Major League Baseball. I am more like collegiate intramural baseball. Of course, the Dodgers would beat a co-ed marketing club team. The Dodgers should play the Mets, and the marketing club team should be playing the rotary club. Does that analogy make sense? 5. This week: 13 total matches, 7.7% win (1 match out of 13). Now, this week makes it particularly weird as it is survival. Against the general player population, I win 69% of the time, that doesn’t go down 10%, 20%, or even 50%. It falls by almost 89%! Why? Well, my clan of comparably skilled players got paired up with vynal, Rezeky and their team, as a representative example. Who are they? Great question. They are the 5th and 8th highest ranked players on Xbox for Trials of the Nine as of October 9th, 2017 with 765 wins and 712 wins respectively. Where my encounter with Zympyy was overkill, this was thermonuclear annihilation. As you can imagine, we were celebrating the 4 total kills we collectively landed that game. Were we on some crazy win streak? No. Actually, we hadn’t won a game yet. How do you think this is an acceptable scenario? 6. The video is telling. I am establishing a casual stream, and happened to record the entire encounter including my webcam to allow you to see facial expressions during this sacrifice. This video shows, very clearly, the issues plaguing Trials and the crucible as a whole: incredible lack of balance, “penalty” to players with good connections (175+Mbps down, 24+ Mbps up, <25ms ping, wired connection, no dropped packets, open NAT, etc), impossible deaths, and classes having insane advantages over others. I would be happy to provide it at your (Bungie) request. Trials makes no sense. The saying “steel sharpens steel” is a great way to describe how competition pushes players to improve. While this is true, there is no “lesson” when the matchup is so skewed. The only thing that happens is these excellent players get to advance to 766 wins, get even more Trials tokens, earn more end-game loot (which statistically, they probably already have earned many times over) while a good player feels like your product is flawed, sentiment shifts to negativity, and another player regrets spending $100 up front on your product and future content. What makes this even crazier is that I’ve read several responses to questions about chests in PvE having a “cooldown” period where the game will limit payout from chests (traditionally 1 local token) for whatever reason. This is beyond absurd to the point of offensive. Ghosts can have perks that AID a guardian in locating chests. A guardian can buy scout reports to find these chests more easily. Despite this, planetary resources and tokens have been deemed “so highly valuable” that a guardian who makes an effort in the open world, despite paying for and using a consumable, shouldn’t deserve the spoils from locating caches. This kind of “farming” doesn’t really pose much risk to the community as there really isn’t an item from localities that are considered part of the end game “meta.” I argue that Trials tokens are substantially more valuable than an EDZ token, for example. Why would there be a restriction on very low value tokens where the rewards aren’t particularly noteworthy, yet, you allow a subset of professional-class players to earn literally thousands of Trials tokens, “farm” players who have no business ever being matched with their type, and penalize the “average Joe player” who just wants to play similarly skilled/decently challenging opponents? Destinytracker.com reports over 2 million daily crucible players. I have a hard time believing there wasn’t a better matchup within a population roughly that of Jamaica. -gregnm369 (XBL) *stats found via destinytracker.com [spoiler]Moderator edit: This thread has been moved to #Feedback forum so that other Destiny players can weigh in. See [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/139533839/0/0]Cozmo's thread[/url] for more information about the #Feedback tag and its uses. Feel free to private message the moderator who moved your post, link to topic for further clarification about why this topic was moved.[/spoiler]
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#feedback

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  • TRIALS IS HARDCORE! TRIALS is basically ranked PvP and as in any game Ranked play is tough and more for Hardcore players. The best Trials players got wired connections Pro Controllers and the best PvP weapons their is to offer not to mention they already have stacked fireteams with people they went flawless with last week and week before Know yours maps before going in (Competetive Crucible is all trials maps n modes good place to build up strategy and map awareness Look up the best weapons in Trials. Find one good for you. Avoid playing with random people.Trust me trying to go into trials witb random people vs Coordinated stacked teams will make want to break your controller Adapt! Trials is basically a hardcore ranked type pvp. As in anygame gameplay changes in Ranked if Mida is dominating damn it go get a Mida

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    • Trials of watch the heavy

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      • It just needs to go back to 3 v 3 again and I'll be happy

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      • I played Trials in Year 3 of destiny and I would consider myself a good PvP player getting around a 1.3 towards the end of Year 3 Destiny. I would jump into Trials and go 3-1, 4-1 before finally finding the ceiling and losing the rest until the card was over. This Trials I haven't even won once. We actually only got close twice. And by close I mean we won 1 and 2 rounds respectfully. THATS IT. Getting matched against people who already won 4-5 games is absurd and I can't stand being steam rolled by amazing players who wait around all week to just go flawless 19 times every weekend. Congrats on making Trials even more cancerous. I can't believe you allow Paid Carries to happen as well. STUPID!

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        • This shit right here, this is how you complain. Great write up

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        • This is my experience from my very few trials games. I was never that great at D1 trials either, so trying it out in D2 was just painful. I quickly decided it was no fun for me and not worth my time, so I doubt I'll try it again for a long while. Always was more of an iron banner guy, so doesn't bug me too much.

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          • I read some of that and you sound like a lot of people I have heard on here. Kind of doesn't make any sense, I have heard people on one hand say this way it is completely easy, yet from what I've read of your entry you're not winning as much and this seems to be a common theme. you can understand it sounds like what they call a oxymoron, for a skilled person, it can't be easy but you don't win as much at the same time

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            • Edited by dnrobs: 10/12/2017 12:45:23 AM
              Winning is being with the team, go into trials when your kda is 2.0 at a minimum. Top 25% is a 1.2 kd.

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            • Very well said, it was a broken system in D1... they completely obliterated it in D2. It's ridiculous. How can they expect people to stick around and play.....

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            • Well said. At first it was too long but I started reading and you got me hooked. I know you focused on trials and that’s fine but it’s a perfect example of what’s wrong with this game as a whole. I only play Tuesdays and Wednesday’s now. Just bang out the weekly things and a raid. Nothing left to do after that besides get melted in trials so I’ll pass.

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              • One of your opponents had 766 wins after beating your team. It was day 16 of trials. That player averaged 47.88 wins PER DAY, yet it only takes 7 wins to go flawless. When people are playing that many matches beyond their ultimate victory in the same pool as players that haven't succeeded, in what is supposed to be a tournament setting, it is going to break any matchmaking design. The entire concept is self defeating, only serving to constantly drive away the bottom rung players when they realize they have no reasonable chance of success. Just like trials in D1, start out with millions trying their hand only to be chased away by the top 1% and be left with 150k around the world playing at the end and complaining how sweaty it is and how bad matchmaking is, with no ability to draw in new blood. Trials is built to fail.

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                • "Professional" with negative kd. But seriously trials is rng

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                  • Well thought out post with some real statistics to back it up - I feel the same way about trials- I'm not a great PvP player by any means of the imagination- but i'm not terrible either- I tried trials the first week with my clan (some of them are good players n we worked well together in quick play) - we got stomped in every match, we played maybe 5 matches before we realized we were wasting our time and win maybe 3 rounds total- to the point: this activity in it's current state is not available for me to compete in let alone enjoy

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                    • I'm not a trials player but I tried it out with some randoms the first week because I do enjoy D2 PvP far more than D1 and it was a mess. We got crushed by another team and then 2 matches later we were paired up against the exact same team. There are 2 separate issues here. One, how are we paired up against the same team twice? I thought the idea of trials was the cream rising to the top, the teams that win go on to face other winners. Second, what algorithm is Bungie using to matchmake? I can understand maybe getting crushed if it's the first game on a card, but how do we get matched with a vastly superior team multiple rounds in when we can barely win a match?

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                      • [quote]I’m a 32 year old professional. I have a deep understanding of trends, statistics, goals, and direction. It’s what I do to allow me to afford Destiny, related gear, the connection to other Destiny players, etc. [/quote] I recently am unemployed, still able to do all of this, what's your point? Professional or not, you sir are a dick for even acting upper class.

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                        • Edited by Boothby: 10/11/2017 6:41:48 PM
                          I don't think Trials is (or necessarily should be) skill-based as far as its matchmaking. I think it is purely scorecard-based. At least, this seems evident to me. [b]EDIT: Turns out this is not the case and Trials is random and terrible.[/b] Not too many average or 'good' players are even jumping into Trials anymore from what I understand, so even if skill-based was turned on, it might still be tough to find a match... I think adding skill-based matchmaking to Trials kinda defeats the purpose of the mode. We already have a SBMM playlist (regardless of everyone's opinion of it), where skill meets skill. It's redundant to have another mode that works the exact same way... [b]EDIT: This next point is moot because they aren't tracking the scorecard. So stupid.[/b] Perhaps Bungie might consider giving the card more loss slots, to even out the competition a little better. If it's purely based on the scorecard, then the very worst you can be is 0-2 into your next matchup. If you can't beat that 0-2 team, then Bungie says you don't belong in Trials. I'd say, give us 7 slots each - smooth it out and give appropriate rewards... Just spit-balling though... [b]EDIT: Yeah, after hearing that Bungie doesn't track the scorecard and match you appropriately, I agree that Trials is unplayable for the MASS majority of players. Why would you waste your time for (minimum) 4 random matches, potentially 9? Worst game mode ever...[/b]

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                            “I’m a 32 year old professional.” Yeah in what, bullshit? [spoiler]lol nerd go away[/spoiler]

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                            • [quote]you allow a subset of professional-class players to earn literally thousands of Trials tokens[/quote] You stop earning tokens after about 10 wins. You're right, it's not fair for an MLB team to go up against an intramural one. It's also not fair for an MLB team and an intramural team to receive the same compensation for winning their brackets, which's what everybody seems to -blam!-ing suggest.

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                              • Edited by RPColten: 10/11/2017 12:05:07 AM
                                [quote]I’m a 32 year old professional. I have a deep understanding of trends, statistics, goals, and direction. It’s what I do to allow me to afford Destiny, related gear, the connection to other Destiny players, etc.[/quote] Probably not the best line to open your thread with.

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                                • TLDR

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                                • Yeah, I did 2 runs this past weekend, didn't make it to flawless either times (I've been 4 times across the weeks prior since Trials relaunched). Both runs were going well until we matched up against the 13th ranked for Trials. On our first card (Friday), he had like 670 wins on his Trials emblem. On our second card, on the Monday we faced up against him AGAIN and he had 830 odd wins. We just gave up and played Fortnite Battle Royale. I'm not asking for an easy ride, I just think the matchmaking needs to be worked on more.

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                                • I feel like Trials is broken from another view. I got flawless in first few tries. We lost three or so games, but after that, we stomped everything in our clan's path. I know I suck at crucible and bit embarrassing to say, but I never got flawless in D1. Even though it is easy to say that my clanmate carried me, but in some games, I did as well as my clanmates did. I felt bad for other teams. we stomped.

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                                  • Told you bungie studio are scam artist

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                                  • Trials isnt skill based. Its more like a casual tournament where you may face garbage for 7 games in a row or face top tier teams 5 times in a row. Its just reset and retry. RNG like everything else in this game. You can't have SBMM, which would ideally reach a 50% w/l ratio, into a tourney style game mode that encourages players to win 7 times in a row for loot. It can't happen no one would go flawless lol itd be a mathematical outlier for you to do so. Flip a coin 7 times and see how many times you get heads every time and thats what you'd have after a couple weeks of SBMM. It literally can't happen. They did win based matchmaking towards the end of D1 and casual players couldnt go to the lighthouse at all. The best situation is the current one and everyone is in the same boat you win some you lose some. Also comparing competitive survival stats to trials stats is a useless comparison because alot of the top tier players dont even play crucible until friday to specifically play trials. Trials is casual despite people calling it competitive. Its casual since there is no SBMM. You play and if you get 7 wins at all you basically get the same loot as people who go flawless, besides an emblem and an aura. Thats it an emblem and an aura. Why people care so much about going flawless now when the rewards are so minimal is beyond me. Just reset and try again.

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                                  • I agree with you that destiny should do comparable matchings in competitive and quickplay, but trials is meant to be the best against the best. To be frank, you don't belong there... yet.

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                                    • Real talk destiny 2 is broken

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