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Edited by helljumper2380:
4/17/2016 11:44:07 PM
247
Gambling addiction, underage gambling, and microtransactions
First please keep this conversation intellectual, no name calling etc. Trying to start a true, actual intelligent debate and talking point here. Thanks.
Next will be making this one of my key videos once I get a minute to get my YouTube up.
Do you think games that contain Rng, purchased packets (like cod points and cryptokeys for supply drops, silver for sterling treasure and etc) are gambling. As a definition gambling is considered a game of chance USUALLY entered by some form of currency purchasing "attempts" or "rolls" . Now I want to differentiate Between using real world and in game currency to purchase "rolls" .
While I feel these both are very negative, especially to those addiction prone individuals, the real world cash for tries can be far more detrimental. And in my opinion it is these people that are half of whom these microtransactions are directed at. This is immoral, to pray on addiction prone individuals for monetary gains. Even casinos have a gamblers anonymous number and will stop certain players if they spot possible signs that an addict is playing. The other group these are targeting is just as immoral and very possibly illegal. Children and young teens.
The games (especially Destiny .sorry) are creating and supporting this separation in the community of haves and have nots to try and push those, especially the younger crowd whom tend to focus strongly on who has what as a means of social hierarchy and acceptance. "Where's the evidence? " look at the ways to acquire packages (this is where I single Destiny out more than others although they're not clear, they do contain ways to grind without the arbitrary weekly cap.) You can get 3 per week without using silver, but you are unlimited if you use real world cash. Combined with extremely low drop rates of certain items in package and the seemingly extremely high instance of repeats, leads to those only able to get three a week vs those with high disposable income. You now have created a "what are those" type scenario. This can push those who normally wouldn't buying treasure to be accepted by friends. This is using known psychological and sociological processes to make money.
Now what makes all of this abhorrent is its not just buying said item which is a one time purchase, its random. It's like going to.a shoe store to get Nike's, paying 150 dollars for a box that has a one percent chance of containing the sneakers and then a bunch of other crap like hats and shirts.
Now to top it off its supporting and pushing gambling on minors, which is illegal.
And for the unbelievers. They have been proven, and even stated they use psychological analysis to produce the best return.
For those apathetic gamers and millennials, remember it's Friggin people with a disorder and children I'm talking about, not the random purchase by adults.
To edit. Its been proven that even when receiving virtual goods through either loot drops or and loot crate types it triggers the exact same chemicals in your body as sex, winning and certain drugs.
I'm no sjw. I love Destiny. But we need to question things to make things better.
How to fix it ideas welcome also. Mine are either we remove them all together, in a perfect world great. But I would say what needs to be done is allow alternative ways to acquire them past 3 per week. And any repeats broken down and put towards next package
Edited edit. Thanks guys not only trending but for the most part it's been a real conversation, not a bash fest.
Keep the conversation going. Probably the first time I've seen mature, educated debate here
English
#Destiny
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Edited by Lull9: 4/17/2016 6:32:26 AMYou get exactly what you pay for. Absolutely F[b]u[/b]ck-all... Pixels that will be even more worthless a year from now than they currently are.
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2 RepliesYes, it is gambling....as much gambling as putting a quarter into the plastic ring machine as you exit the store.....
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Gambling involves winning money. You're not gambling for money. You're buying a chance for virtual content.
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Destiny has been the ultimate gambling simulator since its release.
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8 RepliesEdited by IZeromusI: 4/16/2016 11:11:47 PMYou want an actual debate and yet we have no clue who you are. Your claims are not supported by any links / research / sources. Oh and also; #offtopic.... Oh and Bdobbins basically said this word by word and that dude is basically a colossal retard. I'm going to stop here but frankly, you need to come up with better BS for us to believe than.... This... [spoiler]By your logic, driving a damn car is a gamble nowadays[/spoiler]
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2 RepliesEdited by TotalDramaGamer: 4/17/2016 5:21:39 AMTrue, I don't like the idea of gambling or 'pay to win' to be a staple of a game. It should never be a staple... unless you're a free game like, Warframe, where it HAS to have that, because it's free to play. I can't blame Warframe for what they're doing, and to their credit, in Warframe you CAN earn pretty much anything and everything. And you can even 'barter' for their real life money (called platinum) within their in game market. Now that's the cool and redeeming part of it. This is for Warframe, of course, sorry for the distraction of game. But, for Destiny, if someone was actively trying to avoid a gambling like scenario I would have it done the exact way they have been doing with their emotes (well, their new emotes). You can buy a specific piece of what is within a sterling treasure for a certain amount. So you could get what you wanted. And if it's everything you want to buy everything, you could buy everything. That would be the solution for the gambling look alike issue. At the same time... I'm sorry, but people have to responsible to their own spending, addiction or no. And I truly don't believe Destiny is targeting people with gambling addictions in their use of the sterling treasure. If they were, I would think that everything that Eververse has sold would be a 'random roll' at an emote or something of the like. Now, I can understand your worry that it could get to that point that it's a problem. But right now it's not and I hope they have enough smarts to know that that's not the way to go. Not for the type of game they have. As soon as they have exclusive, pay to roll, weapons or meaningful armor, they'll kill a lot of their player base for good. Just a fact. I feel bad that someone could get hooked on gambling or something like that, and that games have that feature that could trigger that sort of behavior. But, for Destiny in comparison to everything else, Destiny is pretty dang minor and doesn't at all force exclusive items in a 'roll' that have to be paid for. Sure, they have exclusive things for certain bundles of the game and stuff. But not exclusive 'random roll to get' items. They give you plain, free and almost effortless, ways around paying. 3 a week? That's pretty good, in my mind. They could have just stuck to only giving one for free. And a chance for a nightfall drop. Now that would prompt way more buyers if they stuck to only one free box. I understand your concern, and appreciate the viewpoint, but I don't agree with you. Your concern is sound. I don't agree that it would be a fault by Destiny if someone bought a billion sterling treasures. That's a personal choice that has to be restrained by an individual. That's just life and every person's responsibility. That's why people with that, burden, should have a support group or someone to have help and watch over them beforehand. I truly feel bad for anyone with an addiction or problem that compels them to do that sort of thing. However, I still would blame the person way more than Destiny if that did occur. And to be really fair, Destiny isn't at all bad in this regard. Compared to half the crap that's out there?? No, not the pinnacle of this problem in the slightest. And it's not like they're selling something you would get hooked on and have to buy every day. It has a cap, which is, you will get all the stuff eventually. That's unlike gambling. Destiny's treasure has an end no matter what. In real life gambling... it just goes on and on and on... you'll never get 'everything'. You'll always need more money, or another chance at a car, or that jackpot. The sterling treasure you WILL get everything. And then the drive is gone, if that kind of thing happens. Which I still say is not it's main intent of Destiny to prey on any individual in that regard. But that's all I'll put out there. So yeah, and I think the solution to this would be to sell the individual pieces, not a random box. To fight that gambling desire. And I do agree with you, completely, where I hope that a pay to roll never becomes a staple part of this game, ever. That I agree with 100%. And your concern that this might grow out of control is another I share with you. I can see how this can be bad in time. However, it's not bad how they have it right now. That, I guess, is what I'm really trying to say. Lol, I just used a lot more words than that to say it. I hope you have a good day, 2380.
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6 RepliesI'm sorry but if you're saying rng with in game currency is wrong then you're removing the main part of most games, chance. Most board games and duce games which largely revolve round the roll of the dice as to wether you win or not are effectively gambling. Also young people "gambling" with real life money is nothing new. Pokemon Kinder eggs Pannini stickers Fifa packages Farm ville etc Destiny's micritransactions are really pretty trivial compared to alot of these
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3 RepliesEdited by Walrus Walter: 4/17/2016 2:34:18 AMCOD has a 1% drop rate for getting the vanity weapons. You want to talk about gambling? The items are dropping at a 100% drop rate You're taking the risk, but at least you know you're coming out with something. In gambling, you can win nothing. Imagine paying for a chance at getting nothing. That's real gambling. And no, it's not "especially Destiny". If you want to really talk about these, then go to CSGO where people drop thousands to get one weapon skin. And to finalize your worries, no these are not directed at people who gamble. These types of microtransactions are targeted to whales. A whale is the guy who does opening videos. It's his job to buy microtransactions and open them. Just like a guy who opens up multiple card packages. If you consider Destiny micros gambling, you might as well consider Pokemon cards gambling too.
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Isn't it just like buying football stickers to try fill an album?
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12 RepliesEdited by Psyko_Dad: 4/17/2016 5:40:03 AMI don't really see the problem though. Imo, there isn't anything wrong with having an addiction as long as you can keep it under control, which 90% of the people can. And if you don't like it in a game like Destiny, just find something else. This 'gambling/addicition' factor of Destiny is actually one of the few things it has going for it. If you would remove it, Destiny will really be dead in a month.
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Give us a summary
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No, because everything that you get has the same value (that value being nothing whatsoever). I don't see it as gambling any more than a gumball machine is gambling.
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Okay bro. Turn around and use this post towards BO3. I feel as if a $2.00 sterling treasure is worth that price when you get a piece of gear that look really cool, a chance of getting not one but two boosters, more than one chroma, and perhaps one of the other additional items. These items aren't marked up to a ridiculous degree like BO3 where it costs basically $80.00 for a new gun. The only thing I think Bungie should do is take away the ability to get skeptar gear for other classes or add the ability to get taken armor for any class when opening the package.
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6 RepliesOr you can just play the game. have fun and actually be normal person
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4 RepliesAll i know is CSGO and CoD have the same shit, targeting children with random very unlikey weapons or skins dropping. CoD has those stupid knifes and certain weapons, CSGO has weapon skins and knifes ( but some can be gained through completing a match but they are normally shit), and now destiny with this sterling treasure shit, whenever i see someone walking the tower with all the taken gear and stuff, i just kinda laugh at them, and sorta feel bad for them lol.
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2 RepliesEdited by Lordsa Jar-Jar: 4/17/2016 3:31:31 AMAgreed to an extent, ultimately it's the consumers choice. Minors(under 18) have no way to purchase these "packages", unless they have permission from a guardian(and the required funds). Even a prepaid visa requires you to be 18+ to make an account. I suppose they could use gift cards, but, if they want it that bad chances are they'll annoy the hell out of their parents anyway.
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9 RepliesIf you're predisposed to gambling problems or addiction in general then stay away from games like Destiny. It's YOUR choice.
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Agreed, I brought this up a long time ago (not in this much detail but the same point) but was either ignored or scoffed at, supporting gambling with real world currency in an environment of under aged individuals should be considered illegal and not brought into the game (especially a game that's rated T, hell not even rated M games because of the 17+ age slapped on it and it is well known players below the recommended age play it). It's things like these that can ruin a persons life if they are prone to addiction and should be taken a lot more serious than it is.
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6 RepliesTime played is meaningless. RNG grinding is poor design. RNG based micro-transactions are gambling. Laws were passed against such "gacha" tactics some time ago in Japan, because gambling addiction is a serious problem.
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1-800-GAMBLING
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1 ReplyRNG is probably the best Business Decision cause it forces people to grind more and more (Hence More Time Played) If everything was simply given out (like most games) then there would be a lot less people playing Just My 2 cents
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I don't see a reason to buying sterling treasure. If you play the game you'll eventually get everything doubles and triples it's just patience. If I could pay for a 335 helmet with my desired perks and stat rolls maybe I'd think about it. Signing off smoke dogg
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Rolling for good items (if you consider some not good) is essentially gambling, because it's not skill-based or guaranteed by completing something. The only difference is you're putting money in a slot or chips (bought with money) on a table each time, except in the case of purchasing items that contain randomized items. So yes, Tess Everis is basically the casino table dealer.
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I'm addicted to destiny just like other things
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I completely agree with you. They know a very small percentage of people will blow hundreds on these things and make them loads of money. They are taking advantage. Yes. But short of a supreme court ruling that it's wrong, nothing is going to stop companies from using this in video games.
