{{
`${userDetail.user.displayName}${userDetail.user.cachedBungieGlobalDisplayNameCode ? `#${standardizeBungieGlobalCode(userDetail.user.cachedBungieGlobalDisplayNameCode)}` : ""}`}}
{{getUserClans()}}
Edited by helljumper2380:
4/17/2016 11:44:07 PM
247
Gambling addiction, underage gambling, and microtransactions
First please keep this conversation intellectual, no name calling etc. Trying to start a true, actual intelligent debate and talking point here. Thanks.
Next will be making this one of my key videos once I get a minute to get my YouTube up.
Do you think games that contain Rng, purchased packets (like cod points and cryptokeys for supply drops, silver for sterling treasure and etc) are gambling. As a definition gambling is considered a game of chance USUALLY entered by some form of currency purchasing "attempts" or "rolls" . Now I want to differentiate Between using real world and in game currency to purchase "rolls" .
While I feel these both are very negative, especially to those addiction prone individuals, the real world cash for tries can be far more detrimental. And in my opinion it is these people that are half of whom these microtransactions are directed at. This is immoral, to pray on addiction prone individuals for monetary gains. Even casinos have a gamblers anonymous number and will stop certain players if they spot possible signs that an addict is playing. The other group these are targeting is just as immoral and very possibly illegal. Children and young teens.
The games (especially Destiny .sorry) are creating and supporting this separation in the community of haves and have nots to try and push those, especially the younger crowd whom tend to focus strongly on who has what as a means of social hierarchy and acceptance. "Where's the evidence? " look at the ways to acquire packages (this is where I single Destiny out more than others although they're not clear, they do contain ways to grind without the arbitrary weekly cap.) You can get 3 per week without using silver, but you are unlimited if you use real world cash. Combined with extremely low drop rates of certain items in package and the seemingly extremely high instance of repeats, leads to those only able to get three a week vs those with high disposable income. You now have created a "what are those" type scenario. This can push those who normally wouldn't buying treasure to be accepted by friends. This is using known psychological and sociological processes to make money.
Now what makes all of this abhorrent is its not just buying said item which is a one time purchase, its random. It's like going to.a shoe store to get Nike's, paying 150 dollars for a box that has a one percent chance of containing the sneakers and then a bunch of other crap like hats and shirts.
Now to top it off its supporting and pushing gambling on minors, which is illegal.
And for the unbelievers. They have been proven, and even stated they use psychological analysis to produce the best return.
For those apathetic gamers and millennials, remember it's Friggin people with a disorder and children I'm talking about, not the random purchase by adults.
To edit. Its been proven that even when receiving virtual goods through either loot drops or and loot crate types it triggers the exact same chemicals in your body as sex, winning and certain drugs.
I'm no sjw. I love Destiny. But we need to question things to make things better.
How to fix it ideas welcome also. Mine are either we remove them all together, in a perfect world great. But I would say what needs to be done is allow alternative ways to acquire them past 3 per week. And any repeats broken down and put towards next package
Edited edit. Thanks guys not only trending but for the most part it's been a real conversation, not a bash fest.
Keep the conversation going. Probably the first time I've seen mature, educated debate here
English
#Destiny
-
1 ReplyThese things definitely have some sort of gambling feeling to them. What makes the difference here (in MY opinion) is the fact that usually gambling is spending money in order to have a chance to win money.
-
When Activision bought King (the makers of Candy Crush) for 1.7 billion dollars this time last year, I jokingly said microtransactions where coming. Then they appeared in Black Ops. Then they patented Eververse and I thought trading was coming. Well trading did come. Kind of. In the sense that you traded real money for gambling. I said this month's before it came. No one listened. Wish I could find the posts.
-
11 RepliesI work at a casino as a blackjack dealer so I see gambling addiction and gambling first hand. Destiny is a giant casino. It's all chance based and the odds are not in your favor. You may not be constantly pouring money into as you would at a casino, but instead you pour time into it. And they added items such as the silver boxes to do the same thing. EVERVERSE takes it a step further by adding real money into the equation, and creating a real slot machine in a video game that takes your money for chances at items. Traditional video games reward you with certain items for completing different, difficult tasks, while Destiny may or may not. I like the gameplay and the different places, but Destiny turns me off the way they approach the RNG system.
-
Mostly I stay out of the cancerous #Destiny but this post is actually very good kudos to you sir..
-
5 RepliesBungie can bypass the legal issues of underage gambling with systems like this by having the purchase be Silver and not the Sterling Treasures themselves. Plus, with the dances that you can buy with no gambling involved, it's fairly easy for them to avoid getting any gambling controversy.
-
9 RepliesI can't see any differance between buying treasure box's or scratch cards, both cost money, both have a chance to contain what you want (a prize). It's gambling end of story.
-
2 RepliesYou are correct however in a court of law you would be incorrect. Though their methodology is based around gambling, the person who invests money into say CoD points will still get something in return. Though the item they receive may not be of value, to the judge and jury this will seem to be nothing more than a simple transaction. Like I said you are correct but you don't have the legal evidence or the money to take Activision to court sadly.
-
Not gambling. You will get something from the ST boxes. May not be what you want but you get something. Gambling would be if you could get something or nothing so...
-
3 RepliesIf the game was rated M then I would say it's not gambling But Because it's rated T (USA), I do believe that it's creating some sort of addition amongst other youths
-
3 RepliesSome one got there electronics taken away for stealing mommies credit card, now she's on his account bitching lol
-
1 ReplyI never purchased any silver. I have everything I need in destiny . I have received emotes as rewards and the drop rate or new gear seems reasonable. Because people used micro transactions the April update was free. I could see it as a kind of gambling but the sterling treasure boxes only contain lvl 3 light gear as far as I was aware and the shiver emote ??
-
8 RepliesI would say that comparing eververse to gambling is a stretch. Promoting that it promotes underage gambling is even more so. You can't get a credit card if you are under age to purchase silver. If they steal their parents credit card then that's stealing. If the parent gives them a credit card to use, then that's foolish. The parents get what they get if they don't like the purchased goods they then have to pay for. This isn't gambling. Heck the little bubblegum machines they have at the stores in this case is much more gambling than eververse. No telling how many times you might have to buy to get the desired toy out of it. Any arcades, fairs, the circus will all be more guilty than eververse, and they do specifically cater to underage minors. Though I wouldn't consider them gambling exactly either. However if you want to go down that track of thought. I think you should go after them before destiny. After all they are worse, and effect more people.
-
The world is an immoral place. Some people try and create a world in video games that doesn't follow along with that. Others just see a way to make money by exploiting the human weakness of others.
-
Edited by LifeTyde: 4/17/2016 9:27:01 PMAn [b]intellectual[/b] conversation on the [b]destiny forums!?!?[/b] that is un [b]heard of![/b] anyway, I get your point but I don't plan on ever using silver on anything except for emotes.
-
5 RepliesEdited by jayp0721: 4/17/2016 2:45:13 AMNice, well thought out post OP. Refreshing. I tend to agree on microtransactions as a whole (RNG or using in game currency is not all bad in my opinion). They are definitely made to take advantage of addicts and young people who don't know better. Games used to contain everything with your purchase, then maybe some paid dlc content. Mobile games have made microtransactions main stream and now it's going to infest console/pc gaming to the same ridiculous degree. It's a way for them to make huge money on bare bones content. And people just keep gobbling it up. The days of fully fleshed out games for a single price (with or without paid dlc) are fast coming to an end. Instead we will see ever increasing games requiring many microtransactions for very little content, that when added up would make most people shit their pants. Factor in the price of the game, DLC's, and microtransactions, and it quickly snowballs to a completely out of balance price/game. Sadly if we want to play, this is what we will have to put up with. It's simply too lucrative for companies to ignore. Dolla' bills y'all! I gladly pay for a game I like, but also rarely will buy anything related to microtransactions. I work hard for my money, so should these companies who sell games.
-
Decent point I never thought of it like that
-
1 ReplyI think you make a good point. I'm not sure it can be called 'gambling' as such due to there being no monetary payout but it triggers the same behaviour and responses as gambling. I see pple paying out loads of money to get what they want and when they don't get it they just spend more - completely compulsivly with little thought to the consequences. I know it's personal decision but where there's money involved there should be some safeguards put in place to protect vulnerable people prone to addiction. I can only imagine the trouble some people could get into with this. My opinion is that it is foolish to support micro transactions as it only serves to line the pockets for greedy corporations who are in turn providing us with a sub par product with very little longevity. It does not encourage bungie to create better content. $70 for a set of armour when it could be an entire new game or DLC for less.. Think about it. It's a complete con.
-
3 RepliesI don't think the eververse stuff counts as gambling because you are guaranteed a reward for everything. Even the sparrow one gives you a random horn.
-
1 ReplyI am afraid all video games can trigger addictive responses in those that may be predisposed. A hard line approach would remove access to anyone with that predisposition. Addiction is the compulsory response of a natural reward mechanism built into all humans. Those who have stronger compulsory responses are often treated by restricting the exposure to triggering actions. AA is a good example. This has been proven to improve quality of life of the affected subject, but actually does not treat the problem. Much of the reason why those in Anon treatment reflect that they are "recovering", but never "cured." But the question is do microtransactions encourage this response in individuals with this predisposition. Probably. Would a change in marketing the brand away from children offset this problem. To some degree yes, much like age restrictions on tobacco, alcohol and gambling do. The problem though is, that many people, including children, can partake in these actions and not be affected by a compulsory response. In these cases, the person partaking in the action finds the whole affair entertaining, but ultimately is not defined by the action itself. TL;DR - Microtransactions are not the cause of this problem, but may help enable it. Should this mean the complete abolishment of the practice? It may offset the problem, but it won't fix it.
-
17 RepliesAnd of course, we're never gonna hear any word from Bungie on this. These "community forums" are a joke
-
5 RepliesI think a lot of these counter arguments need to lean further away from semantics and more towards logic and reasoning on why it isn't a problem. Just my two cents.
-
6 RepliesEdited by argent.shard: 4/17/2016 6:48:28 PMYes they are simulated gambling, they need to add that shit on the ESRB/PEGI/CERO if they're going to include it. I won't say it's a huge "problem", but they are preying on [u]some[/u] people that put their wants before their needs, and that reason alone needs an appropriate rating. What I currently think is worse is that Destiny was rated teen prior to these inclusions, and whatever came after is "unrated" content, and avoids legalities of minors actually gambling.
-
10 RepliesHoly wall of text! China call you back yet? Please put in a TL;DR.
-
2 RepliesI 100% agree with you that it is gambling as you are spending real money for a "chance" at getting things, chance being the key word in gambling. These companies that are adding these microtransactions to their games for a "chance" to get something you want is wrong, and how they can realistically right these wrongs is to make it so if you are spending real money then you should get what you want and know what you are getting. These companies need to actually take a look at the people whom are likely going to be playing these games and realize that A LOT are going to be minors and its unfair to them to have to be pressured into "gambling" on these games, but i can also say the parents need to be more aware of these things and make sure it isnt a problem with their kids. But hey if the parents dont have a problem with their kids spending their earned money on a "chance" to earn these things then who are we to try and speak up and make these things known.
-
You sir need a TL;DR p-p
-
i think the usk, fsk and pegi rateing of that game in europe is wrong. someone has to call these guy to modify the rateing to 18. what destiny does is illegal. gambling for underage.
