First please keep this conversation intellectual, no name calling etc. Trying to start a true, actual intelligent debate and talking point here. Thanks.
Next will be making this one of my key videos once I get a minute to get my YouTube up.
Do you think games that contain Rng, purchased packets (like cod points and cryptokeys for supply drops, silver for sterling treasure and etc) are gambling. As a definition gambling is considered a game of chance USUALLY entered by some form of currency purchasing "attempts" or "rolls" . Now I want to differentiate Between using real world and in game currency to purchase "rolls" .
While I feel these both are very negative, especially to those addiction prone individuals, the real world cash for tries can be far more detrimental. And in my opinion it is these people that are half of whom these microtransactions are directed at. This is immoral, to pray on addiction prone individuals for monetary gains. Even casinos have a gamblers anonymous number and will stop certain players if they spot possible signs that an addict is playing. The other group these are targeting is just as immoral and very possibly illegal. Children and young teens.
The games (especially Destiny .sorry) are creating and supporting this separation in the community of haves and have nots to try and push those, especially the younger crowd whom tend to focus strongly on who has what as a means of social hierarchy and acceptance. "Where's the evidence? " look at the ways to acquire packages (this is where I single Destiny out more than others although they're not clear, they do contain ways to grind without the arbitrary weekly cap.) You can get 3 per week without using silver, but you are unlimited if you use real world cash. Combined with extremely low drop rates of certain items in package and the seemingly extremely high instance of repeats, leads to those only able to get three a week vs those with high disposable income. You now have created a "what are those" type scenario. This can push those who normally wouldn't buying treasure to be accepted by friends. This is using known psychological and sociological processes to make money.
Now what makes all of this abhorrent is its not just buying said item which is a one time purchase, its random. It's like going to.a shoe store to get Nike's, paying 150 dollars for a box that has a one percent chance of containing the sneakers and then a bunch of other crap like hats and shirts.
Now to top it off its supporting and pushing gambling on minors, which is illegal.
And for the unbelievers. They have been proven, and even stated they use psychological analysis to produce the best return.
For those apathetic gamers and millennials, remember it's Friggin people with a disorder and children I'm talking about, not the random purchase by adults.
To edit. Its been proven that even when receiving virtual goods through either loot drops or and loot crate types it triggers the exact same chemicals in your body as sex, winning and certain drugs.
I'm no sjw. I love Destiny. But we need to question things to make things better.
How to fix it ideas welcome also. Mine are either we remove them all together, in a perfect world great. But I would say what needs to be done is allow alternative ways to acquire them past 3 per week. And any repeats broken down and put towards next package
Edited edit. Thanks guys not only trending but for the most part it's been a real conversation, not a bash fest.
Keep the conversation going. Probably the first time I've seen mature, educated debate here
English
#Destiny
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Ya old as hell. But true games a cash grab and a half
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necro
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I watched a streamer this morning roll sterling silver packages back to back trying to get something that isn't even available in sterling silver packages. I wasn't surprised to see that and understand completely that game companies are in business to make profits from their hours invested into ideas such as sterling silver packages.
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33 RepliesAllright let me refute you This game is 18 + So destiny does NOT target children. Any children who DO play, parrents are 100 % responsilbe, NOT bungie ! I find it pathetic to blame a game for something parrents neglect. When you want a discussion state what you want to discuss, you write your opinion like its fact! That will piss people off since you couldnt be more wrong ! So next time try to pose it as YOUR OPINION which you want to debate.... that will piss a lot less people off I think. As for the gambling thing, you have a good point, however the game is 18 + so its no problem. I find it flabbergasting you worrie about game addict and have some fairy tale idea about the world being morally ok ... do you ever watch the news ? Welcome to the real world ! Perhaps people should train to keep their GREED in tome and be satisfied with 3 a week. Its all a choice ! Your free to chose, your asking for restrictions coz you dont think people can handle freedom. I prefer freedom and can handle it just fine ! For those who cant... we are all adults here (should be) ... dont play the game ! Go to rehab ! By your logic we should ban all guns, all knives, all things that you could hurt people with coz some people will... I dont like that logic ! As for children ... the problem is not destiny, the problem is not bungie. The problem is PARRENTING. Any adult (unless mentally unfit, determined by law) has his OWN responsibility !
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15 RepliesEdited by Veget8iveSt8: 4/18/2016 12:54:06 PMI'm a lawyer but am not familiar with gambling laws. I suspect, however, that Destiny's and other games' in app purchases are not gambling, legally speaking, becase (1) the in-game rewards do not have any significant economic value IRL because there is no player-to-player trading, (2) on the whole, the in-game rewards from in-app purcahses are not really a material part of the game, economically or from a content standpoint, and (3) video games are entertainment media publications with bona fide amusement purposes. (1) In Destiny or similar video games, there is, via the in app purchases, a game of chance entered for money, but nothing of any economic value is obtainable from the game of chance. A year 2 Gjallerhorn or a Fate of Fools is economically worth as much as 20 spirit bloom and all are economically worthless. (2) Anything which is obtainable from an in-app purchase is either cosmetic or is available via gameplay and all players have to pay the purchase price for the game and the DLCs. Activision's revenue from Destiny is almost entirely from these purchases, I'm guessing. (3) Destiny is a real video game in which the developer invested almost $1 billion in designing and building. It is a huge game, full of content that has nothing to do with the in-app purchases. If Destiny were nothing but a website with the cryptarch that opened engrams for PayPal transactions, then that might be gambling. As to the underage issue, technically all transactions are with an adult. If a minor has access to Destiny, then there is necessarily some adult somewhere who has said that they are responsible for everything the minor does. I don't think there is any easy line between a legitimate video game and illegal online gambling. Activision and Bungie, however, are probably acutely aware of the risks of engaging in certain types of in-game transactions. This is presumably one of the reasons in app purchases have been limited in scope and are almost entirely for cosmetic items or allow a player to skip older content. The law continues to evolve and video game publishers continue to try new things. Eventually, one of them will get a subpoena from a state AG somewhere. I suspect Activision will make sure it is not them.
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Any gambling constitutes not money but items of value...which these have and is based off chance. So my non lawyer super genius self is done. I think.you should be disbarred.
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Necro
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3 RepliesHow is this any different to the mobile phone games which having been doing this for a couple of years. It's part of gaming culture now and it doesn't cater for the need to gamble it's the modern need to want everything immediately. Gamers have no patience anymore.
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1 ReplyI have to say, those of you defending it are so full of crap that your eyes are brown. "The times" is no excuse. I deleted this crap game after seeing that you can only get 3 sterling packs per week. All I have to say is have fun buying your gear in Density 2 with real money. I am so sick of you lazy gamers try to excuse this type of business practice and scrutinize anybody who speaks out against it.
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2 RepliesKids generally do not have the means to pay for such things unless their parents let them use their credit/debit card. So that's a parenting issue. And adults should be free to make their own decisions even if there may be negative consequences. It's called freedom. This whole real money RNG package thing is nothing new. It's been around for a long time in many other games. It could only really be considered gambling when you're focused on getting a certain item from it. Otherwise you're just paying for a random assortment of virtual goods in exchange for your money.
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I think sterling treasures are similar to apps like clash of clans and dragonvale. Both of these games have a side "currency" which can be used to progress/upgrade things faster. While the side currency is not "required" to play the game, it just speeds up the process of advancing. Also, this same side currency is given out freely during special occasions and events, so it's not like the only way to acquire them is by purchasing the currency with real money. Sterling treasures work the same way. You don't need to buy sterling treasures to play the game to its fullest potential, because all it gives is just extra gear. Users are also able to get 3 sterling treasures every week, by completing certain activities, which is basically like giving them out for free. People make a big deal out of sterling treasures, but in reality, it has just become another way to earn/grind for gear. If you want the gear now, then purchase sterling treasures, or wait for every week to get 3 sterling treasures for free. It's that simple. I apologize for this being so long, I'm just trying to make a point that people often miss. TL/DR: Sterling treasures are not a "pay-to-win" system, but a way to earn the new gear faster than others who choose to wait for their weekly 3 sterling treasures.
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There's nothing to fix about Destiny's loot RNG. If anything they are merciful with our drops, since we don't have to roll from a loot pool and the drops are guaranteed for our class.
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2 RepliesSimple answer for you Its rated T Parents have ability to lock stuff. [spoiler]boo hoo[/spoiler]
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Didnt read all of this but title got my attention and actually an interesting concern. If an adult player wishes to pay for silver on their account then, whilst this has it's issues for some, it is fully acceptable. But for kids with online accounts (with cards linked) that arent theirs or they dont appreciate the link between silver and real life money, this could create serious issues. Not sure how bungie get around it but like mobile game/gambling addictions, there needa to be a clearer distinction that they are spending real life money on the game curreny.
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Edited by Ve7n00m: 4/19/2016 7:13:42 AMI don't buy Silver but the RNg 'in game' keeps me coming back. Sometimes I feel dejected (for very small periods of time) when I don't get something I'd like to have (like the god damn Longbow) I've ranked up the Crucible 19 times since update and not had one drop! After every package I open I say 'I'm not doing this anymore, -blam!- that gun' yet the very next day I'm playing Crucible with the soul purpose of ranking up to try and get it again, once I have it I'll be able to stop but I can't stop until I have it, is that addiction or is that determination, or is it something else entirely? [spoiler]Obsession?[/spoiler]
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9 RepliesIf there is a gambling element in it all that need to be done in eververse is make it a choice instead of a chance package. This takes all the chance away instantly and easily. Just make it so that you can pick what armor you are buying. I can see why there could be an element of gambling to it but I don't think that destiny is going to cause somebody to have a problem that they wouldn't have anyway. If you are susceptible to a gambling addiction you are probably already playing cards or dice out on the playground anyways, it's not difficult to find a game out there even for kids. As you pointed out the under 18 crowd isn't supposed to be playing, this protects Bungie from a legal challenge I would think.
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1 ReplyThis reminds me of the never ending anti smoking campaign. I'm an adult and quite capable of making decisions on my own. "But it's about the children!" some poor bleeding heart will cry. No. It's about turning the the game that took away your Gjallarhorn into a social justice crusade. For the kids, of course
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2 RepliesI tend to agree that, as others have stated, this game is not considered "gambling". I tend to take a different approach. Destiny has devolved into a "paid freemium" game. That should come as no surprise as Activision has jumped with both feet into the "freemium game" market with their purchase of King (Candy Crush). In fact, the only thing that separates Destiny TTK from any other "free" app game is cost. Everyone paid to play Destiny. After that, there is little difference between TTK and any free app game. Both have "trickled" content paid for my micro-transactions. Both are predicated on continued income from micro-transactions to remain "alive". Both are WILDLY profitable and THAT is the underlying principle. Activision/Bungie did not create this game for entertainment. They created it to generate PROFIT. Now, of course every developer/publisher desires profits from their investment. It is every businesses goal to be profitable. The difference becomes when the profits are either earned from a good product or earned through a marginal product with paid enhancements (micro-transactions). Lastly, have you ever wondered why Destiny is not a subscription based game? Subscription based games are also very profitable (WoW, EVE Online for example). There are two main differences IMO. First is there tends to be increased costs for subscription games. To keep people paying, a developer/publisher must keep content "fresh". The second difference is customer expectations. Paid subscriptions must meet certain customer expectations. If they do not, the subscriber just stops paying and leaves. In short, Bungievi$ion has taken the easy route of putting out the lowest amount of "content" possible while subsequently offering multiple micro-transaction possibilities. This is what Destiny is and it will stay this way until it is no longer profitable.
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1 ReplyWho cares oO to much text... let me play ... LET ME PLAY!!
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Did you get this idea from BDobbinsFTW?
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6 RepliesThrowing words out like addiction is pretty strong dude. People that are truly "addicted" suck dicks for drugs or live in filth spreading their legs for a bag of heroin. Until you see the idiots doing shit like that you can hardly say there is any addiction going on. I got an idea for you. Instead of throwing around dumb shit that you do not know about, you educate yourself on the subject. If you were really caring for these people than you should become a police officer or a social worker. You will see real addiction than. Some kid buying a few dollars worth of silver packages means nothing. You just can't afford it and feel a need to vent on here.
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6 RepliesHere have a free sample , thanks that was good ,may I have another , that got me hooked Yah sure but this one will cost you conversation between a drug dealer and a soon to be addict sounds like microtransactions
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Paid RNG is gambling. Period.
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This game? No way in hell. Cs:go, Tf2 and dota 2 are prime examples that essentially have gambling.Heres the thing, you can by crates that contain a variety of different weapons or cosmetics, sometimes you get lucky and they contain something thats worth more than what you paid for the crate. You can then go onto a trading site, sell it for real money and try your luck again. Its basically vegas with other gameplay elements.