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6/28/2013 7:26:03 PM
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Question about the Bible

Unlike my other thread, I'm not looking for debate or argument. I'm looking for perspective. First of all, the Bible claims that God cannot lie (unless by proxy with angels), does this not violate the idea of omnipotence? Also, does he not tell Adam that eating the fruit will kill him? Which it didn't. Secondly, if God created everything, he must've foreseen the War in Heaven, Judas's betrayal and other pivotal points. All of these are integral to the faith, so, is Satan not carrying out the will of God? The more obvious example is, how is it fair that Judas should be driven to suicide and generations of Jews persecuted for something (the romans did) that was central to God's plan? Finally, how is scapegoating moral? How is it fair that someone else can die and take away your responsibility? Nobody can take away your responsibility. Also, how is it fair that it should be forced upon us, in this day and age, when we had no hand in his execution - which was, again, part of God's plan? These are genuine questions. While I enjoy arguing and while I am very opinionated, I am simply looking for answers.
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  • Well, I can answer a couple of questions, assuming I can remember what they are (can't look at your post whilst writing mine due to mobile). As for God not lying: He's not unable to lie. He definitely could if he wanted to. But because he is the being of all that is holy and good and what not, he would not lie under any circumstances. As for Him not for seeing Judas's betrayal and other stuff: God knew it would happen, and yes, it wasn't a good thing. God knows everything that's going to happen, BUT He gives people their own choice and free will. Do we really love or follow someone if we're forced to and unable to do otherwise? Not in the slightest. Yes, I'm sure that's a very shallow answer and maybe not put in the best form, but I've got to go, like, now. I can elaborate later if you're still interested. Anyway, peace.

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  • I just want to know why people actually read through the whole god damn bible looking for controversial points.

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  • [quote]First of all, the Bible claims that God cannot lie (unless by proxy with angels), does this not violate the idea of omnipotence? Also, does he not tell Adam that eating the fruit will kill him? Which it didn't. [/quote]No where in The Bible says God can't lie. And God didn't tell Adam that the Fruit of Knowledge would kill him, he said it would compromise his immortality since that was Adams contract with God. Adam was to be the keeper of the Garden for eternity as long as he obeyed the rules God gave out, and Adam broke that contract when he ate the fruit of knowledge (typical how a woman ruined mans perfect life right?). [quote]Secondly, if God created everything, he must've foreseen the War in Heaven, Judas's betrayal and other pivotal points. All of these are integral to the faith, so, is Satan not carrying out the will of God? The more obvious example is, how is it fair that Judas should be driven to suicide and generations of Jews persecuted for something (the romans did) that was central to God's plan?[/quote]Gods "Divine power" is widely debated as The Bible widely contradicts itself on Gods abilities. As such, it's pretty given that the God in Jewish/Christian canon isn't all powerful, but pretty close. Enough to know when someone tells a lie (the death of Kane), or enough to create the universe but needs to rest afterwards on the seventh day. [quote]Finally, how is scapegoating moral? How is it fair that someone else can die and take away your responsibility? Nobody can take away your responsibility. Also, how is it fair that it should be forced upon us, in this day and age, when we had no hand in his execution - which was, again, part of God's plan? [/quote]Except the responsibility isn't taken away, the eternal consequence is. You must still wise up to your wrong doings and why they were wrong, but as long as you accept Jesus you will be forgiven for them. It's good to accept his REAL teachings as well. And by real I mean the stuff he actually said and wanted his followers and worshipers to do. Like to love your brothers and sisters even if they're evil, sinning, heathens, you still love them.

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    • I'm Christian, but I also understand there's plenty of issues with the religion but a lot of those result from how people chose to interpret Jesus' teachings. I mean who's to say that the PEOPLE that wrote the bible got it 100% correct. All I know for certain is that Jesus died and took all of humanity's sins on himself so that we can be reunited with God in heaven. I think that if someone follows a different religion they aren't punished for it and will learn the truth after their death. I am blessed to know what happened and can live my life with Gods love but that doesn't mean another person didn't get saved because they have been taught differently. He took EVERYONE'S sins. The thing that will send you to hell, in my opinion, is if you live an immoral life and reject Gods love and forgiveness when presented to you. So in my life, Christianity means accepting the love of Jesus and loving him back and spreading that love to everyone else in my life. Jesus is love. I don't like church though. I don't need a preacher to have a good relationship with him. There are some mislead people in my religion but you can't hold that against them, they just don't understand how his love works and how to show it to other people. Teach people about christianity by the way you live your life and treat others and only use words when necessary.

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    • This set of questions presupposes that the Christian theology isn't full of philosophical holes. But I'll give you the presupposition and answer the questions from the perspective of the fundamentalist. 1. [i]the Bible claims that God cannot lie (unless by proxy with angels), does this not violate the idea of omnipotence?[/i] "Cannot" is a vague term and can simply refer to His unwillingness, not His inability, to lie. In other words, God is capable of lying, but He will not, because He is perfect good, therefore the question is irrelevant. 2.[i]does he not tell Adam that eating the fruit will kill him? Which it didn't. [/i] (Assuming I am presupposing that the Creation story is true, [which educated people understand is impossible] and not taking it as a metaphor) Again, "die" is a word with a double meaning. Adam, Eve, and mankind "died" to God in sin and were forever separated from Him in the Christian mythos. 3.[i]if God created everything, he must've foreseen the War in Heaven, Judas's betrayal and other pivotal points. All of these are integral to the faith, so, is Satan not carrying out the will of God?[/i] All things work towards the will of God, the final victory is already known. So yes. The key variable not being noticed here is free will - Satan must be released into the world to give the created man a choice. 4.[i]how is it fair that Judas should be driven to suicide and generations of Jews persecuted for something (the romans did) that was central to God's plan?[/i] Judas' death is actually one of the discrepancies in the Bible. Matthew 27 shows Judas as a guilt-stricken man who commits suicide by hanging himself (which is a personal choice, by the way). The book of Acts says that Judas used the thirty pieces of silver to purchase a field, where he fell over, died, and his guts spilled out on the ground (no guilt present). I've never heard of a Christian claiming that the Jews were persecuted because they crucified Christ. The anti-Semitic feelings in Christianity are drawn from Jews being represented as the Pharisees in the Gospels (you of course know that Jesus repeatedly rebuked them). Blame Constantine for everything. 5.[i]how is scapegoating moral? How is it fair that someone else can die and take away your responsibility?[/i] It's not. The argument is that Christ loved you all so much that he chose to take it all himself. But unfortunately, that opens up a lot of problems with the modern day Christian belief system. 6.[i]how is it fair that it should be forced upon us, in this day and age, when we had no hand in his execution - which was, again, part of God's plan?[/i] Again, it's not. To put it bluntly, you have been created sick, and you must now choose to be well, or else burn in fire for eternity. The method of getting well is closing your eyes and telling Jesus you accept his gift, by the way. People all over the world who have never heard of Christianity, good people who just don't buy stories with logical canyons carved into them - they all burn forever and ever because they didn't just accept that Jesus died for them. God is Love. Yia sou.

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      • Remember you are reading a translation. So maybe in the original Hebrew when God said to Adam that the fruit would kill him it meant something else. I don't know the Hebrew term for that verse but I know in languages like Arabic and Hebrew some words can have various meanings. In the Quran God says to Adam "Don't approach this tree you will be one of the wrong doers"

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      • r a racist popeye right?

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      • excuse me, let me just slip my opinion right in here

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