So weak players don't deserve Luna...OK...so why then do strong players get there Luna and then do nothing but pub stomp the weak players in quick play. Stay outta quick play So the rest of us can enjoy a little PvP for a change. You guys had trials and screwed that up with cheating and manipulating the meta. Then you get your own sweat mode..comp....and now your turning what's supposed to be a fun easy going game mode...quick play...into a sweat fest. When does it stop? Does every PvP mode need to be dominated by super skilled players. He'll you guys are even overflowing into gambit...flexing your team play abilities and invader skills.

Not forgotten is better than Luna's but tbh I'd put Ace in the same tier as NF.

Not Forgotten has better range than Luna, but it's stability isn't on par with Luna. It's kinda a trade off as to which is better. For close to mid range, I'd say that Luna is better hands down, but for that range, if you have the familiarity with its kick, Not Forgotten is better.

I play on PC I don't need cheesy aim assist. Not Forgotten is on a completely higher tier than Luna. Ace is also on a higher tier and both guns are used by the top players depending on their playstyle. Ace I'd say is better in more situations as it absolutely maps and has a harder hit in the event you miss someones head.

Yeah, PC and consoles are two different worlds with two different metas. Unfortunately for us console players, we don't have the ability to turn off aim assist or have guns with little to no recoil, but on the flip side, we don't have aim bots, macros, and all those assisted methods of cheating like PC. So both have pros and cons. We play what we play. Edited: My phone autocorrected meta to metal lol

There is almost no cheating on PC.... PC is a much better version of D2 since there is no aim assist. It rewards skill and aim. Most people just whine about cheating because they are bad. I can count the number of cheaters I've faced since launch on my hands, and in comp I can count it on 1.

Odd... According to Bungie, they have already banned over 1,500 PC players for violation of their Account Restrictions and Banning Policies and handed out another thousand or so account restrictions to PC players, stripping them of their Pinnacle Weapons and even restricting them from PvP all together. All of which is on Google, if you would like to check for yourself. If not, I'll just give you a link to one of their Tweets talking about it. https://twitter.com/Bungie/status/1010223291577954306?s=19

1500 players is miniscule. Like I said, I've played since launch and can count on my hands. I don't need to fact check I play the game myself and have thousands of matches played.

1,500 that were banned, another thousand or so who were given account restrictions... Those were just the ones who were caught. I find it hard to believe that Bungie caught everyone, or even a third of the people who cheat and with a PC PvP population of a little over 75,000, roughly one in seven getting caught, it's pretty safe to say, there's a lot of cheating on PC. Far more than consoles to say the very least.

Theres almost no cheating but whatever you wanna believe. Either that or the cheaters so shit that I still beat them regularly lmao (entirely possible)

You might be that good. I don't know, but Bungie isn't going to lie, saying that people have found a way to defeat their programming, publicly name people and ban people for cheating or submit press releases giving out numbers in the thousands for people that they have caught unless it was true. Not to mention, there wouldn't be several pages of aimbots for sale online if no one was using them. And before you say that no one would buy them, go look at eBay, and look at how many people have paid over $200 for a virtual gun. But yeah, lol I wasn't attempting to start a debate, I was just saying, where we have shitty ass aim assist that we can't turn off and lame recoil to deal with, cheating is far more prevalent on PC. So, there's pros and cons to both.

I mean you literally have aimbot built into your controllers so it's hard to take you seriously if your complaining about cheating. More prevalent is true but you are making it out to be an issue when it really isn't. As I said, I've only ever seen 1 team with true aimbot ever, and the only other cheating I've encountered is DDOS which again is rare. There is no real cons to PC, it's superior in every way.

LOL if you think controller aim assist is a good thing, you really never played on a console at all. I couldn't even begin to tell you the amount of times that I've had someone one shot and their team moves in front of them or jumps past, pulling my aim off target. That's why almost every console player wishes they had a switch to turn off aim assist and uses guns with low aim assist numbers. But you can think what you like and play down the cheating all you like. I honestly don't care, but you look foolish denying it's existence and how much it exists in PC when everyone, even Bungie has admitted its an issue and has statistically already caught 1 out of every 7 PC players cheating. But it's not a big deal, right? Lol

Sorry m8 you can downplay the aim assist on controllers but it's literally the easiest thing to use. It's foolish for you to pretend it actually is a big issue when literally nobody I know in the top clans or on my friends list every complains about it and I personally don't ever see it. If it was truly 1/7 there is some statistical miracle happening to me because I've got thousands of matches played. I played a tonne of D1 PvP and know how easy controllers are to use. Literally no console player wishes they could turn off aim assist because controllers are garbage to aim without it. MnK is the only true "aim" experience. See how your "stat" isn't lining up with reality? It truly isn't a big deal. I got unbroken this season and across all 3 seasons I've seen almost nothing I would call cheating.

Yeah, you are right. Absolutely right... I can't believe that Bungie would lie about banning so many people, make up names of people, tweet about it, do interviews about it, and that so many websites would write articles about it. It's a giant conspiracy. Destiny Tracker is lying about the PC population, as is Charlemagne. Oh and those hundreds of sites that advertise aim bots for PC, they are just doing that cause they needed to fill up the space. They don't actually sell any of them. And the hundreds of posts on the forums with videos are all fake. Yes, your thousands of games played disprove everyone. It's a global conspiracy.

Idk where they said they banned 1/7 players. They banned 1500 players. I think you are the kind of person who doesn't read statistics properly. Like I said, I've got thousands of matches and I don't see it at all. It doesn't appear to be an issue for me or any of the top player I am friends with. Sorry m8. I don't doubt there are cheaters but it's not an issue you like you make it out to be. As I said, if 1/7 players are cheaters then how have I not been facing them in my thousands of matches? I don't think there is a conspiracy I think you are just misinformed and lack any sort of logic. ALso, you're probably a trashcan so I'm sure you'd assume a lot of people are cheating that in reality aren't.

Yes yes... That's it... I'm a trash can, so I presume that players I'm not playing, who are on PC, are getting caught cheating and getting banned. Bruh, you might have a decent KD, but your IQ is low as all hell. I'm not going to sit here and debate with you all day. Learn how to Google. Try the words "Bungie" , "PC", "Cheaters" , and" Banned". Then after you read all those articles, learn how to use Destiny Tracker to do something other then look up your KD and Charlemagne to do something other than brag to people who don't care, and look up the Destiny population for PC players who play PvP. Then after you have both set of numbers, compare the two. If after you have done that and you are still just as adamant that there are no cheaters on PC after your thousands of games played, which you have mentioned like ten times now, there seems to be only one obvious and logical conclusion. You see, if everyone else is acknowledging the abundance of cheaters on PC and by everyone else, I mean thousands of players, 3rd party websites selling the stuff saying that it works and offering testimonials, YouTube, 3rd party recording sites, reporters, game sites, developers, and yes, even the game creator and you are still denying it as hard as you are... Well... The logical conclusion is, that you must be one of those cheaters. No one else would fight so hard and even resort to insults to disprove so many sources all saying the same thing, unless they had a guilty conscience and were trying to hide something. So... I may be a "trash can" as you say but the really funny part to the whole thing is, I'm fine with that. I'm not the OP who said nerf the quest. I actually said the weapon quest was in a good place, but I think you forgot that along the way with your pill box preaching and bragging about your "thousands of games played" which you said over and over. But... And here is the kicker... This "trash can" has Luna and Not Forgotten, the same as you, and I haven't even stepped into Comp this season, because I don't care about The Mountaintop or a Title. I mean, come on, who is actually going to grind out for a primary grenade launcher that they will never use. Blame Bungie for that one. Either way, have a nice day and I'll let you get the last word in, because I'm done wasting my time on you, but don't worry, I have a pretty good idea of what you will say. You will deny cheating, as all cheaters would do, you will throw a couple more insults, might call me trash again, brag about how many games you played and a whole bunch of blah blah blah whooping and hollering, all the while, not Googling a single thing so you have nothing to back up a word you say and having nothing really noteworthy to add. I know this because looking at your Bungie History as I did last night, you do it on every post you comment on. "Trash can" seems to be a very consistent go to for you, as does mentioning your "thousands of games played". It's very broken record. Edited to fix a typo.

I’m not say to do away with a Pina. Me weapon. My point is that I’m losing points because someone loses their first gunfight and quits. Now that team of 3 is gunna lose points because of something selfish that happened completely out of their control. Take away the subtraction of points, give each win 1 point for all I care. Don’t take away all progression in a progression game with progression quests for 1 pinnacle weapon

In any team based sport, if your teammate screw you over, your teammates screw you over. That's just how it works, both in reality and in game. It's the risk you run solo queuing. If you are as active as you say you are, join a clan, make friends, run with them. I'm nowhere near a sweat player. I think I rock a 0.93kd but because I have a clan and an active one, I had zero issue getting any of the weapons. It's a social game and as I said when you do something team based, you can't expect Bungie to cater to you cause your team messed up.

That is apples and oranges. I am not complaining about potatoes, I know that’s what I have to deal with. In what sport does one player quit and leave?

Most recently? Buffalo Bills cornerback Vontae Davis quit at halftime while they were losing to the Los Angeles Chargers 28-6. On September 28, 2011, Jose Reyes hit a bunt single in the first inning of a game against the Cincinnati Reds and promptly pulled himself from the game. John Kruk of the Chicago White Sox quit in the middle of a game against the Baltimore Orioles. Kevin-Prince Boateng of Milan picked up the match-ball, kicked it into the crowd, removed his jersey, and walked off the field mid game. Mike Wallace of the Miami Dolphins walked off the field with 2:49 left in the second quarter and told coach Joe Philbin that he no longer wanted to play in the game. I could go on and on. All of those teams took a loss though.

You're listing examples that took place over a period of years, where as with D2 the issue happens literally hundreds of times a day. Your also listing examples where players chose to quit while a great deal of players in D2 are getting disconnected or kicked without the choice, either through faulty p2p connections or even dos'ers. If sports had anywhere near the same number of instances of players leaving, getting kicked from the game for no apparent reason, or blatantly cheating as D2 pvp you can bet there would be changes made. The difference is that the occurance of players leaving, getting kicked from a game for no reason, or gaining godlike superpowers in sports is so rare that it isn't seen as a problem where as with D2 it's such a common occurrance that it killed one competitive game mode already and is well on it's way to killing a second. Yet for whatever reason, Bungie is hoping the "If we ignore the problems they will go away" tactic will work here.