I disagree, as a seasoned raider it's more of a "Same shit different day". We look at a new raid and we're like "Shit I'm never gonna beat this" or "Wow this looks complicated" But then you go in and do it like once or twice you're tune changes to a "Eh, this isn't as bad". It's a rhythm really, once you're in it, you won't stress over a raid. King's Fall, and Last Wish were like that for me, once I got in and understood them, here I am with 40+ clears start to finish for Last Wish for example(I don't see the point of farming the last bit of the raid over and over, I usually go in and finish it on all of my characters for the week, anymore than that I'm doing it with a friend cause I wanna play with them or if a friend of mine needs 1. I used to stress about it, now I'm just "Oh hey raid, can't wait to try this out". I'll attempt it when I think I'm ready, otherwise, I'm just playing the new content. Leviathan, in my honest opinion, was horrible. I know Bungie could do better, EoW was a fun short one, felt like Crota. SoS... Honestly I was bored out of my mind in that raid, playing hot potato isn't my idea of fun in a raid, though Val Ca'our phase 2 is really fun, it's like the mechanics of Oryx, and the chaos of Aksis mashed together, really felt like a war zone. Leviathan honestly almost killed raiding for me, if Last Wish was gonna be anything like Leviathan, I wouldn't care for raids, Last Wish brought my passion to do raids in a fury, that raid is just bloody amazing in my honest opinion, easily the best one they've done, as someone who's done the Riven fight legit, I'd rate her as possibly the best boss fight I've fought of all time. The theme of the raid, lore, mechanics, it felt like a D1 raid, Riven made me and my team a lot better raiders, we all felt like it was the ultimate test to our teamwork for the past 4 years, and I gotta say, we nailed it. Best satisfaction we've had, and the best I've ever had, I don't think anything could compare honestly. Slaying an Ahamkara, a taken one at that, a Taken Space Dragon, we all were hyped and pumped for that, and the Riven fight delivered, beating it we all emerged as new individuals. Before in a raid call outs were part of an encounter, we always double check a lot, and remind each other, now we're just "Ok so I got so and so", followed by "So and so? Got it" Badda bing badda boom. There's still some human error which is bound to happen, but it happens a hell of a lot less now. Almost non existent might I add. Give it some time, you won't be stressing over the raids. If you have to study a raid, study it, keep your self reminded. Morgeth? Ok let's refresh my memory... Ok got it, good. Stuff like that and you'll be golden. Leaving from a raid not beating it cause of LL or whatever the reason may be, leaving with experience is a win at least in my book, knowing that when you do come back to it, you're pretty confidant that you'll beat it.

The only raid that felt kinda fun was Scourge and even then it is true. Destiny 2 raids aren't fun. King's Fall was fun. Wrath was cool. The D1 raids had character and attachment. These raids are just existing.

I used to raid at least once a week. Now it’s like once every six months.

Completely agree! They made them complicated just for the sake of doing it. As much as I hated VoG, I would do it ten times before I would even attempt Last Wish or that joke Leviathan.

Totally agree, peace guardians

That’s how they should be.

Nah. The raids are good. Just gotta get used to them. No more complex than the ones in D1. And yes you can teach them, easily, and it’s quite fun.

Not true. They are not complicated they require team work. Raid report me and see how many shurpas i have. I have a blast doing raids and the fact they require more team work is why i love them. If you make them conplicated then they will be a pain. But its just about doing your job. I find is when people who dont know the raid and just want to do what they want is when things go sour. Id your on psn hit me up. We have an awesone time in raids and love to teach new people. Its a chill group.

Pepperidge Farm remembers and so do I.

ya cuz oryx wasn't a mechanical .. axis wasn't a mechanical .. golgoroth wasn't .. zamboni wasn't one as well and vosik wasnt one as well .. not a mechanical fight that need you to do alot of steps to get to damage phase if it had a damage phase that is .. i love how hard and how much ammo you need for oryx damage phase .. riven mechanics was hard .. stand in a well and shoot rockets .. and scourge is the hardest raid of them all .. pick up balls and go to the number you have .. wow thats hard

I have to disagree. Leviathan; Bath House can be 4 manned and is simple rotating between plates. Pleasure Gardens: Sneaking and following 1 person then killing dogs. Gauntlett: Killing Adds, Standing on plate or running in circle. Easy to understand Triangle shooting. Calus: Killing Adds and punching Psions in Throne. Shadow Realm callout your symbol and shoot Psions. Eater of Worlds: The easiest raid ever Jump Kill Kill shoot orbs Shoot Orbs kill boss Spire of Stars: Stand on a Plate and pass a ball Boss Phase 1 & 2: Scout-Arm-Destroy Last Wish: Kalli: Stand on a plate, kill knight, shoot boss Shuro Chi: Kill, Shoot Prism, DPS, Repeat. Do the simple puzzle and Repeat. Morgeth: collect orbs and DPS Vault: Left callout is Penumbra Right is Anteumbra. Kill Captain and Cleanse a plate. Riven: Stun Riven and callout eyes, other team DPS and shoot eyes. Both teams do the Cleanse and repeat. Upper floor same thing with 6 eyes. Quuens Walk: Run and callout timer. Scourge: Berzerker: Kill berzerkers Sparrow: Drive Fast Prime PT1: Collect buffs and summon tanks. Prime PT2: Kill berzerkers, Destroy bosses shield, Summon tank and drop the boss. Look for Buffs and go to the assigned DPS spot (C on left, A in the back, P on right) If the person doesn't still know what to do after explaining just do couple runs and show what to do.

I think the community will be forever split on this. But I also think there is a lot that goes into this issue. One could argue the same point you are, but you also have to factor in many things: - are you explaining the mechanics efficiently and in a way that is easy to understand? - are you using common courtesy and not being toxic when someone isn’t quite grasping the mechanics? - are you adjusting your expectation accordingly and not getting flustered after a few wipes? Many times I’ve taken a step back and realized that while the mechanics are as a whole slightly more demanding than a couple of the D1 endgame encounters, I have to be patient enough to make newcomers not feel too overwhelmed. Sometimes feeling like too much pressure on you can cause players to make mistakes. But reassuring players that it’s totally okay to not get it perfect the first time can honestly take quite a load off their shoulders. You have to adapt to the particular team you’re playing with. Positive reinforcement goes a long way when raiding. Sometimes a simple “hey bud, it’s no worries. These encounters take practice.” can make all the difference in player performance

Agree. Ive done most of the except last wish and spire but I just can be assed with them now. To learn last wish I need a good few hours with a good team and people don't want noobs so just not bothering now. Should be a raid learn mode. More would try the proper raid once there taken through it.

I don't really think the new raids were that complicated excpet Riven. Other than that I really enjoyed them.