Joke right? Oh wait no, your serious.....

A lot of people are saying that gunslinger is meant to be boss damage, not a crowd control subclass. But I think the idea is that it would be nice and gunslinger would improve if it was given some type of crowd control. I think it actually has a lot of potential like some have suggested, if change the perk or have enemies explode. Just some way that you could kill more than one enemy with one shot if they are close enough together. And people say some supers are crowd control and not a boss damager like storm caller. and that's especially true when can't reach the boss but at least in strikes with the smaller bosses that are on the ground you can deal a good amount of damage to them with your super. Though they are still definitely better to get rid of a lot of adds just like arc strider and fist of havoc. And then you have night stalker, titan bubble which are more support classes and then void walker which can deal damage to boss and clear adds if they are bunched together. I think it would be best to look at gun slinger vs. hammer of sol vs. dawn blade. The hammer and blade can deal damage to a boss and clear adds with more time to do so but gun slinger isn't as good with clearing adds. So if gave it something to improve in that area it would be more like the other two classes. And maybe the other two don't deal as much damage to a boss the way gun slinger can, so then maybe could increase their damage to bosses to be more even with gun slinger. I'm sure there are more details that would have to be tweaked to keep balance but the general idea I think is a good one.

I agree and I don’t even have a hunter. Just looking at the skill trees I’m underwhelmed

AMEN BROTHER!

Looking at the statistics, there has been a decline in the effectiveness of the Gunslinger, but not nearly to the degree implied here. They're still much better than Sunbreakers. I'll grant you, though, that super short duration on Golden Gun is pretty annoying.

Agree 100%.

I agree, Gunslinger's abilities are pretty underwhelming. The grenades and throwing knife are especially lackluster, and need improvement. I'll expand on this since I love the gunslinger and it's basically all I play. Golden Gun: I think the critical hit bonus on golden gun should be intrinsic. In the bottom tree, the perk that would normally grant this could instead inflict a defense debuff to enemies hit with golden gun critical hits. How cool would it be if "marked" enemies exploded on precision kills from any source? Six shooter could be granted a balancing perk to this - maybe the six shooter perk could grant additional damage for each successive hit? This would solidify golden gun's role for inflicting massive single target damage, and grant some more depth to six shooter, where you'd hope to land each shot in hopes of a super powerful sixth shot that might be able to take out a powerful enemy in one blow. Imagination is fun! Throwing Knife: Damage for throwing knife needs to be buffed across the board. Landing throwing knife hits can be tricky, the reward for a hit should reflect the precision it takes to get one. Explosive knife feels pretty weak. I'd need to see how a buff would work in practice to make my mind up about it. Grenades: Incendiary grenades are a shadow of their former selves, and would benefit from a slight radius increase. I miss their damage output from Destiny, where they mostly resembled frag grenades from Halo. Unrewarding damage for the precision you need to get the most out of them. Movement: Gunslinger just feels slow to me. I was addicted to bones of eao though, so I've never been complete since. I miss them so. That's a hunter thing in general though. Other classes have eclipsed the "speedy" hunter in terms of speed. Sad times. Other perks: Deadshot should grant a stability buff like gunslinger's trance from Destiny. Help out that neutral game a bit. Practice makes perfect grants pitiful amounts of super energy. But I can see how increasing the amount of super energy gained could quickly result in too much a gain. Still, I feel it's a bit low.

Why is gunslinger the only class not to get damage resistance? Waaay too short in duration and waaaay too easy to take down.

Bump

TLDR Stopped tryna read once you started comparing all solar subclasses. This game had 9 [b][u]unique[/u][/b] subclasses. There is never gonna be exact parity. For example: Novabomb is nowhere near as good at CC as the shield bash/throw or the tether. None the less, it has its place and functions well for it's designed purpose. If you want a Hunter Super for CC, be a Nightstalker. I'm not saying that Gunslingers couldn't use a buff, but don't try to make them into Dawnblades or Sunbreakers. Let them be their own unique and wonderful subclass. When I choose to play as a subclass, it should be because of the things that that subclass can do (better than any other), and not because I just wanna do a thing. If I choose to walk the void, it's because I like the way the Nova feels, and not because I need to kill a swarm of enemies (I have power weapons for that).

Yeah, but it's always been that way. Great in pvp, terrible in pve unless you use Celestial Nighthawk for crazy boss damage.

You know for crowd control you can set it to explode. Gun Slinger is fine.

Gunslinger hasn't been the same since they nerfed Tripmines in D1 (lower power, non-sticky on enemies). Pre-nurf, I basically never took off Young Ahamkara's Spine (extra Tripmine). Bring Tripmines back to their former glory, and I could live with the dumbed down skill tree.

The reason that you are [u]never[/u] going to get the CC potiental of GG over the other subclasses is within the foundation of pinpoint accurate, ranged combat. Dawnblade and Hammers have travel time and aren't as accurate the further out you go. Arcstrider CC is pretty much all the subclass has, so that's not the best comparison either. Nightstalker also has only CC as its utility but in a form that does not inherently do damage. So, I'm just saying, comparing GG design to CC utility of the other subclasses is never going to be even close to on par. As others have said, it's mainly a single target super. Either 6 targets, shot individually. 3 targets with increasing damage. Or one target for massive damage. However, I agree with the overall sentiment. The problem is that Bungie [u]did[/u] try to make a 'CC type' loadout for the GG, without making it OP in crucible. Naturally, seeing how that conflicts with the design of GG, it made something less than lack luster. -- My change for the 6 shot would be this: Have a perk for the six shot tree that, for every 2 [u]headshot kills[/u], a bullet is returned to the gun and a second is added to the timer. This would increase add killings and orb generation by more than a third based on purely your skill at headshots. (Honestly, I would just make an exotic that grants combustion) That would make 11 shots possible. 6 shots (that headshot kill) = 3 additional shots (that headshot kill) = 1 additional shot (that headshot kill) = 1 last additional shot (carry over the extra shot from the '3 extra shots'). Remember that these are headshot [u]kills[/u], not 'just' headshots. So, you're [u]supposed[/u] to use this on weaker enemies. The reason for this is to give GG a CC potential while not just being a substitute for stronger CC classes (that are meant to CC way tougher enemies). How would PvP fair? Well, some might say '11 shots Batman! What the F*******ck!?!'. Yes, yes, we get it. But let's consider the fact the GG 6 shot [u]does not[/u] get any armor and [u]does not[/u] kill an enemy super in one hit (even if it's a headshot). GG is the easiest super to shut down and is, arguably, one of the easiest to punish if they rush a room. Not only that, but a 1 second increase to the timer is not enough to warrant wasted time in PvP (hiding in the back and popping), even if you do land the head shots. This perk, ideally, would give GG a steep skill gap that consisted on timing, aim, and wisdom (should you actually try it) that must be balanced. If you overextend you'll be killed, if you go for the kills too fast you will probably miss the heads, and remember that other supers and heavy weapons can easily destroy you. -- The only time this might be a severe headache [u]directly due to this perk[/u] (actually factoring in extended time and shots, not [u]just[/u] the super in general) is in the current 8 person rumble where literally people spawn in front of you. Keep in mind this is all but useless in some Trials and competitive modes, where you are not going to have people spawning all over the place to really 'need' more shots than you already have. Keep in mind you're not getting extra time for body shot skills, so even the extra time is only granted due to better aim. -- The combination of sheer speed, precision, and risk should make GG a very skill oriented weapon in PvP. Keep in mind, you only get 11 shots if you're [u]perfect and fast[/u]. A single missed shot in the 'first 6 shots' will take away 2 of your shots, leaving you 9 total. 5 shots = 2 extra shots = 1 more shot = 1 last shot (carry over the 1 from '5 shots' to this shot). That's just for missing one shot (or even hitting but not killing with a headshot), now you're only getting a third more than the GG used to (9 shots that actually did something, you waste one shot 'from initial 6' and thus lose another shot, which is why you're [u]2[/u] shots less even though 'technically' you did shoot 10 times) Miss 2 shots and you have only 7 total. 4 shots (kills) = 2 more shots = 1 last shot Miss 3 and you only have 5 total kills (due to bonus shots) 3 shots = 1 more shot = 1 last shot As we can see, spam shooting and 'hoping' for kills is going to be severely punished by this system, leaving you with only 2 extra shots possible if you just miss 3 times in the initial 6 shots. Keep in mind these numbers assume that [u]all extra shots[/u] hit their marks and 'count' towards more shots. Missing those, even after hitting the initial 6 perfectly, will still hamper successive extra shot potential. Not by nearly as much, but it still demands your perfection. Besides, how many times have we jumped right in the face of a six shot GG and have them waste 3-4 shots alone doing a panic fan fire? I don't play that much but even I see it happen on a regular basis. Let's do more break downs for how punishing missing can be. 6 shots (perfect) = 3 shots (let's miss once) = 1 shot ... 10 shots total, 9 kills -like the above example, you waste a shot and lose another shot 6 shots (perfect) = 3 shots (let's miss twice) = 1 shot ... 10 shots total, 8 kills -see, not too much difference based on 'when' you miss here (lucky you), but those misses actually hurt more than your lack of extra earned shots 6 shots (miss once, 5 hit) = 2 shots (miss once, 1 hit) = 1 shot (carry over from the 5) ... 9 shots, 7 kills -even less, even though you're still shooting a bunch, your potential kills are now barely over a perfect, original 6 shot super even though you got 3 extra shots. That was [u]only missing 2 shot[/u]s too... in the right place. (I hope, by now, you realize just how important it is to not miss during the initial six shots). -- Now, admittedly, this was 'mainly' all calculated in a PvE setting where you constantly have enemies available to kill at any time, and only wears down your time and shots by missing. However, that only makes the numbers look better than they really are in PvP, not worse. In a PvP format, the maximum team you face is 4, right? So, at any given moment, you can only get 4 kills with the GG before you have to wait for them to respawn. (Current Rumble excluded, as mentioned earlier). Let's assume you always magically get all 4 kills, but not just the 4 kills, but 4 headshot kills without any of the kills being stolen from you from teammates, hit registration, or being killed yourself. That's only 4 extra seconds of time to your super. The super, currently, at start only has an 8-9 second timer. With the 4 seconds granted by 4 kills, that's increased to 12-13 seconds in total so far. You also have 4 shots remaining (2 initial, 2 extra) so, again, you [u]can, maybe, possibly[/u] get the whole team again. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGdHCR82wAg&feature=youtu.be (Just a super basic video, you can time the super with the video time lapsed starting at 1 second in the video, give or take. Not my video.) Now, let's also assume that you instantly find the whole team standing in a corner as you just popped super and get all of them. It'll probably take... 2-3 seconds to kill them all (with headshots) if you have sharp aim. That's around 9-10 seconds left. This is the [u]optimal[/u] condition. Take the time for them to spawn (What... around 4-5 seconds? Maybe?) Now you only have, again, 4-5 seconds to find them, get kills, and hope those inital 1-2 kills net you with barely enough time to get the rest of the team. -- Obviously, without the need for any more numbers, being less than perfect with headshot kills will severely limit the amount of time you have to find the enemy again. If anything, it won't be enough time at all (depending on the map) due to the respawn time alone. So, pretty much, this perk [u]would[/u] give you a better chance at getting the whole team [u]once[/u] during your super if they're spread out. Or, it'll give you [u]a pretty small, but not non-existent, chance[/u] of punishing [u]some[/u] of the enemy again if you sweep the team with a perfectly timed, placed, and accurate GG activation (if they don't simply hide). In other words, the PvP potential with this perk is only minimally better than the original version, however, the PvE potential (the point of this perk) is massively increased but [u]strictly due[/u] to player skill and [u]only[/u] to the end of killing small, single headshot dead enemies. It is [u]not[/u] meant to CC larger enemies like shielded enemies or most yellow bars. It is also [u]not[/u] used as a replacement for the three shot (or celestial shot) in terms of power. The damage is spread out as much as possible in this mode. Other modes, however, require it be more damage to single enemies to stand apart. Thus, the reliance on headshot kills.

GS suffers from minor issues that just make it feel a little clunky. The knife juggler, while satisfying when you can pull it off, isn't good. GS also only has one exotic for the class, and that's Nighthawk. I personally like Nighthalk but Arcstrider and Nightstalker have 3 and 2 respectivelly. With arcstrider you can use any of the three for either top or bottom tree, Nightstalker is more of a PvP/PvE split with graviton forfeit and Orpheus rig. Nighthawk is useful on the bottom tree of GS in PvE only, and you sacrifice orb generation to do it (the damage is nothing to sneeze at though, so there's that). I don't think GS needs much, maybe an exotic choice and a couple small tweaks to some perks. Both top and bottom supers feel good, I don't think either 6 shooter or the precision shots need buffs. TLDR: small tweaks to a couple neutral perks and an exotic choice could do wonders without buffing the class to hell. Edit: completely forgot about the Ahamkara arms. I've never seen them used so they slipped my mind.

It shouldn't even be in destiny2. It's a sequel and 6 old subclasses and 3 slightly different is not good. Gunslinger, voidwalker, fist of panic are almost 4 years old...

I like some of your ideas but Gunslinger isn't a crowd control subclass. It's like taking Stormcaller and asking for a subclass redesign so that it can deal boss damage. Gunslinger is all about burst DPS on bosses and majors. Arcstrider and Nightstalker can't match that but they aren't designed for it either. If anything, they need to continue to build towards that strength.

Hell no