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Destiny 2

Discusión sobre Destiny 2
10/13/2017 12:51:22 AM
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TW@B reply to the Devs: 20 ideas for improved endgame

[quote]One thing we have noticed is a lot of discussions about the Endgame and how it can be improved. Right now, these discussions are also happening in our studio. We are listening, but need time to digest everything and draw up the best plans for the future. We will have more to say on this soon. Please stay tuned, and keep the conversation rolling. -Cozmo[/quote] Thank you for the update and it's good to hear it's being discussed internally. Like you said, there are millions of players and we all have differing and strong opinions on what Destiny is/should be and it's got to be hard to build a game that fits what everyone wants. That said, here are some things that I believe would improve the game and endgame grind (some more easily doable than others, but all I think worth considering) 1) A total rethink on team sizes. 3, 4, 6 doesn't work. Ostensibly the reasoning for 4v4 PvP was creating the best crucible experience possible. It doesn't take much searching to see that isn't panning out. Yes, good connections and crisp play are fun but what's more fun is playing with friends and not telling 2 they have to go after a raid. DeeJ was correct about Destiny and friendship but the current game philosophies don't support that. There are no easy transitions from patrol to PvP to raiding. It's disjointed and leads to someone always left out or already playing with others because there wasn't room. Clans in-game are great, but raids as the only 6 player social activity isn't sustainable. Besides Crucible, patrols should 100 % be accessible by 6 members of a fireteam. We cheese it sometimes and it's FUN all running around planets and doing public events together just like it was a blast to cheese 6 into CoE and Archons Forge in D1. I also think despite the idea of Hunter, Titan, Warlock symmetry of 3 person Fireteams, they should grow to 4 eventually. 2) Get rid of Xur. It's good 3oC are gone but exotics still don't feel like special drops anymore. I remember the feeling of having my first exotic drop in D1 and how exciting it was. They're basically handed to us in D2. I think having chance drops from strikes, the NF and raid underbelly chests is fine; as well as the weapon specific quests like MIDA, but I think Exotic Bounties should return. I think the Vanilla Exotic Bounties were probably the best bounties in D1 and truly felt rewarding. When someone had Thorn, you may not have liked the gun but you knew they earned it. I would remove Exotic engrams from heroic public events and instead put bounty drops in the loot pool for a set of exotics obtained through them. 3) make exotics feel exciting and special. They don't need to all be more powerful, but every Exotic should have one perk that makes it fun. 4) Eververse is robbing the game of end game content. While I think it's somewhat better than D1 (though still hate that Eververse is RNG) in that items get sold for dust that we can attain just playing as well, I think too much was put into that loot pool. The exotic ships and sparrows should all be moved to random drop chances in Lost Sectors and Cayde's chests. I would put them at low to extremely low drop chances but they're content that players would enjoy playing and grinding to get instead of wasted as Eververse purchases. 5) The token system needs a lot of work. It's okay with the world vendors and wasn't too bad with the Faction Rally, but it's not popular in IB and how the same random gear drops we get in every other faction engram ended up as loot possibilities for ranking up in IB is really mystifying. 6) There's not enough unique loot. When it was announced all great would have static rolls, I assumed that would be made up for with just tons of variety. That's not really the case. While the unique sets from the various vendors are cool, there should be more starting with strike specific loot drops like we had in D1. Outside of Zavala's reward drops, there's pretty much no reason to run a non nf strike in D2. I know that for whatever reason you all hated us grinding for weapons like Grasp, but the fact that we did spend so much time farming Omnigul should tell you that we thought it was fun and rewarding. 7) mods aren't fun and there economy is still awful. It's kinda cool we can have 99,999 Glimmer now, but when we're constantly dropping 95% purchasing blue mods to hopefully convert to purple (and not having enough Glimmer to apply them if they do drop! it becomes less fun really fast. Blue mods just need to go completely. What's their function other than to stack to make legendaries? Drop the pointless step and just let us purchase purple mods. The mods themselves need work too. They're all pretty boring and outside of weapon stability mods, pretty useless. I've seen suggestions for things like 3rd eye on mods. Don't know that I'd do that on every weapon, but I think exotics all having a customizable special mod slot (with special mods like 3rd eye) would make mods and exotics more fun. 8) Let us replay the full campaign. The Ikora memories idea isn't bad but should not be the only way (besides starting over) to replay the full campaign. Ikora could still have her memories, but I think they should be special, more in-depth missions in the vein of Praedyth's Ghosts and really bring the lore to life. Wouldn't have to be all the missions either. 9) Give more (read: any kind of) endgame challenges for solo play. The craziest thing about D2's disjointed team endgame is that it's all so punishing for solo play. Crucible just isn't very fun solo. Nightfalls are no longer soloable Strikes don't drop anything worth playing with randos to get Most public events I attempt solo, there aren't any randoms helping either. There's no arena style endgame like PoE, CoE and AF Outside weekly milestones, there's nothing else really to do and no daily bounties to grind 10) Jay from Destiny tracker suggested bringing back record books. This again could really give more to achieve at endgame and could be an avenue for even more unique gear sets (the Eververse gear sets could have been in a record book instead and I know players would've loved grinding PvP and PvE for those set completions. 11) make power level matter. It's one thing to scale everyone on patrol, but it plays and feels exactly the same at level 7 and 90 Power as it does at level 20 at 305. Shouldn't we feel stronger? 12) make endgame more rewarding in general. Playing IB everyday for no gear drops. Running the raid for no drops and level nothing gear you already have at the vendor. Those aren't rewarding experiences. 13) gate content better. Other's disagree but I still feel the raid a week in was a mistake and took away from exploring and really getting into the depth of the worlds. Instead everyone was power leveling for the raid and it turned out level didn't really mean much. Trials did the same with PvP. Now this week you had intended to drop IB and the prestige raid together. That made no sense. Why would you, knowing a lot of people are going to be grinding the raid all week, put out ib at the same time and make people choose? 14) completely redo the crucible. Casual and competitive would maybe work in set game modes, but they are all RNG. In D1 I learned Destiny PvP playing Control. I was able to really learn the mode, the flow, the maps, etc in a game mode I felt good playing. D2 is a nightmare hodgepodge. There is no getting into a flow or rhythm when the game mode changes every match. 15) rethink timers. They're okay occasionally but they're mostly just artificial difficulty. 16) give us a Forge and Theater mode. 17) what's the point of the farm? Once we open the tower there's no real reason to ever go back and even if you prefer it, no vendors. Expand the farm. Give "remote" vendor access and please give us a shooting range. It would be so so so nice to be able to chill and test weapons while hanging out in the social space. Particularly if there were challenges and daily/weekly leaderboards. 18) let us grind and build gear sets how we want. There's nothing that really distinguishes any of the sets beyond skins. My choices as a Hunter are basically mobility and resilience. Sorry, no recovery for you today. Someone suggested let us use all our pointless Legendary shards to reroll the gear slots. 19) keep content flowing. So far we've had the faction rally added. It was fun enough, but let's be realistic. It was content that already existed turned into a limited time event. The world events were the highlights for me though as they really brought the planets to life that week. 20) Destiny is still fun AF. The weapons, classes and abilities are still fun. The raid is fun. PvP can be fun. The planets are beautifully crafted. Playing with our friends when the game allows us too is still fun. Just give us more to do. More to Chase and more to experience both with friends and SOLO. Thank you
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#destiny2 #DTC

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  • Lots of good points I agree with👍🏻, however I much prefer 4v4 and I actually enjoy playing crucible now. I also love the fact that nightfall is nearly impossible to solo for majority of players. It’s a great challenge now. Like I said really good valid points though.

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    • They dont care. We already got cozmo taking the piss out of people on the forum. He has been going around saying why we shouldnt have new rewards in iron banner mix it with any loot. Also when guy gave solutions he made jokes on him.

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      • Great write up and great suggestions! I agree with almost all your points except #2. Xur is/was intended to counteract RNG. Not everyone has good luck or the time to grind all the activities each week, hoping to get something to drop. Strange coins used to be much harder to obtain than they became, so someone who played through the tough activites (heroic and nf strikes) to get coins and buy exotics "earned" them in the sense of the word much more than someone who got lucky with RNG. Also, I hated the exotic bounties that forced you to perform at a certain level in PvP to complete (Thorn). Either give multiple avenues to complete steps or count participation as progress. Nothing felt worse than playing a Crucible match you didn't even want to be in and seeing the progress bar for Thorn decrease...

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      • Up voted! BUT Get rid of xur?? That's not the least of our worries. 90% of exotics are useless anyway regardless of how you get them!! ;o)

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        • Nice constructive post, i agree with most of what you say,

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        • The real issue here , is that we have to tell Bungie whats not working. I get it that maybe 1 or 2 things are not quite right but lets face it, we are talking about pretty much the entire game! My concern is, how has Bungie come to some deluded conclusion that what they released would be ok. Clearly D2 is so far away from ok. There is blatantly obvious mistakes that no one would of thought were ok. Good write up OP, I don'y agree with all the points you have suggested as corrections but it's a start.

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        • Agree completely with #11. #6 is the only other one I give two shits about. The Fix for #6? Bring back RNG rolls for Weapon Perks. This would immediately give Players an actual reason to grind out this game. As it stands right now, once you get one copy of a weapon, you can immediately Shard the rest of them. If Random Perk rolls were re-introduced, there would actually be a return of a modicum of excitement to the loot in this game. As it stands right now, with fixed Perks, grinding for loot is more of a "Why bother?" than a "Yeah! Let's do it!!!"

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          • Editado por SeethingSage: 10/13/2017 6:18:27 PM
            I completely agree on team sizes. 3 & 6 in D1 worked okay. It's really dumb to still have 3-person Strikes and 6-person Raids, but strictly 4-person PVP. We finished a raid the other night, and wanted to do some Iron Banner afterwards. 4 got to go together, and the other 2 were left to go in as only a pair. Reducing the max size of PVP participants makes for far less variety and FUN in the matches. IMO competitive PVP should be 4v4, non-competitive PVP should be 8v8, Strikes should be 4-person, and Raids should be 8-person. Everything would line up fairly well then. But of course, Bungie would never do that now for D2 (except *maybe* in a major DLC) because of the excuse that they designed the current PVP map sizes around 4v4. (Yet one is just Shores of Time re-skinned, so we know at least 6 can work there.) I agree with most of the other points too - mod improvements, campaign replays, strike-specific loot, varied rolls on weapons, more unique exotics, making power level MEAN something, record books, less timers, constant factions, a shooting range, etc. I'd also like to see the return of a more varied skill tree for each subclass, and weekly bounties - especially the Crucible ones that spurred me to use different load-outs. I don't agree on Xur, who at least gives you a chance at something if RNG has been bad to you. I also don't know when this person is playing, but I almost never do a public event solo without 1 or more people showing up to help. But this is pointless anyway. Most of these were either staples of D1 or they've been suggested many times before as desired features we'd love to see in Destiny 2 (e.g., the shooting range, an emote wheel, being able to use your class movement ability in social spaces, etc. If Bungie cared at all about the core community's feedback, we'd already have most of this stuff in D2. I can think of two major QoL things they did fix - now you aren't bounced out of your menu a half-dozen times as you load into an activity, and you can choose a destination to travel to without having to go to orbit first. I've been saying that for every step forward, Bungie takes two steps back. But really, it's more like five steps back for every step forward. The game looks great, there's more to the story, and public events are a bit better, but as a whole the game just seems bland, watered down, less challenging, and less FUN. And for anyone who says that we shouldn't be comparing 3 years of D1 to vanilla D2 - you're WRONG.

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          • I won't hijack your thread this time, I promise! Just dropping some suggestions and thoughts on what COULD get me to buy this game: 1. Compartmentalize the games big modes. Competitive PVP needs to play how D2 plays, Casual PVP needs to play like D1 plays (and with d1 style loadouts - that was PART of the magic afterall), and PVE can keep D1 style loadouts and play the way PVE did in D1. 2. With Competitive PVP effectively made generic and standardized, you can bring back random rolls. Part of what kept D1 going so long was the fact that players were grinding PVE content to get godrolled weapons to use in PVP. Does that sound like players want BALANCE? By separating PVE from competitive PVP and allowing casual PVP to stay the same as it was in D1, you mostly preserve this element of the game in D2 without having negatively effected competitive PVP. 3. With Competitive PVP fully separated, you can give us back our D1 style subclasses and update them with some of the new abilities from the subclasses in D2. I think most people would welcome that. Get back some of what we love and blend it with some of what some like with the new game. Best way to compromise IMO. Ability regen times can be made to be like D1 too since competitive PVP is separated.... 4. They can also bring back RNG rolled guns because we'll still want those godrolls to use in casual PVP. For players who DESIRE balance and PVP focused on gunplay - you can have that in the competitive mode. 5. Because PVE and PVP are separated, and because you (SHOULD) bring back D1 style loadouts for PVE and non-competitive PVP, you can actually make some truly exciting and FUN weaponry. IDC what people say, even if dual primaries "work" within the context of the D2 system, shooting two primaries a vast majority of the time just isn't fun. Primaries aren't sexy weapons. They're workhorse, economy car, every day driver-like weapons. Significant power boosts don't come with primary weapons - they come with special and heavy weapons. With the two modes, we can get back some TRULY AWESOME Special and Heavy weapons. These are just some suggestions they could do IMO - though I'm sure they'll likely ignore them. In the alternative, the BETTER way to handle this would be to just let D2 be a standalone game designed for the Destiny fan who is a competitive PVP player, release more DLC and/or at least provide support for D1, and bypass much of the DLC for D2 and go straight to making D3 with competitive PVP separated from all other modes.

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            • Tl:Dr?

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              • Editado por PhreshBrotha: 10/13/2017 6:05:22 PM
                I wouldn’t get rid of Xur. Maybe make him come once a month at the very least, but I wouldn’t completely get rid of the guy. There are a lot of players out there who don’t have much time to grind during the week. Plus Exotic Duplicates is an issue when it comes to engrams. this game is already limiting as is, I think limiting rewards even more would only piss more people off. Other than that, I agree with your fixes

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              • Bump

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              • Love the constructive criticism and not a bunch of toxic BS. My thoughts.. 1. 3, 4, and 6 works in some places. But there should be more options for different group sizes. I mean, anymore than three for a strike or a nightfall and it would just be too much. Same with six for a raid. But having more options in crucible and open world would be great. 2. & 3. The reason having Xur and 3oC was so cool in D1 is because exotics were rare. The problem, as I see it, in D2 is that they are handed out too liberally and for no effort. I do like that it’s cool that there’s the possibility of getting an exotic engram from doing a pub. But getting them every other pub is too much. Exotics should be rare drops from activities and/or have quest lines to earn them. Then having Xur come to town will be exciting again. Also, having a special currency for his inventory. 23 legendary shards, when I have 1100 shards, means I can purchase his entire inventory without even thinking. 4. I agree, but not completely. Her armor and exotics, yes. Shaders n emotes, I don’t care. Lol 5. The token system is okay. But some venders take forever to level up and some seem to blow through. I think that the venders other than the world venders should give more rep per token. Because the world venders also take other items to level them up. And the drops should drop to your power level. 6. Agreed. The world venders we’re done well. But every vender should have a set, strikes should have a set, nightfalls, etc. Not re skins either. For all the money being thrown at the screen, but some creativity into the game. 7.Agreed. The mod system is a great idea, but needs better mod ideas. Also different tiers of rarity of mods would be cool. Ultra rare exotic mods would be awesome. 8. I guess. I really don’t care. But if people would like this, I’m for it. I think D1’s daily heroic missions was a cool idea. 9. Crucible is going to be rough as a solo player regardless. The match making should prioritize putting solo players with solo players. nightfalls are totally solo able, I do it. Strikes do need a heroic play list with loot to grind. The first few weeks of D2 the pubs were full of randoms, I just don’t think there’s any incentive to do them, so no one is doing them now. Arenas would be cool and so would bounties n such dailies. 10. record books would be cool. Just put Destiny tracker stats in game. Boom . Done. If a second hand website can do it, why can’t Bungie? 11. Endgame activates, power level should matter. Otherwise what’s the point? I think the open world should have a world difficulty setting to make adventures and lost sectors fun and still challenging for higher level players, and reward appropriate loot to match the challenge. 12. I agree. Tokens and chest keys are cool, and should be there. But not the main source of loot. End of the match or encounters you should get a drop and not tokens or a key. Endgame challenges should reward appropriate to the challenge too. Doing a prestige nightfall and getting an aura is lame. Give me some loot! 13. I some what agree. Just because the raid releases a week after launch doesn’t mean you have to kill yourself and blow through the content to do it on day one. But for those people that are ready, it’s there. But, double dropping content like Trials and the raid overwhelms and you don’t really get to enjoy both the activities to the fullest. 14. agree. Allow people to pick their game. I think quick play and competitive options should be simply how the match making works. You select quick play and then you game mode and the game goes to find you a game with more of a CBMM focus, with skill being considered. If you selected competitive, the match making is more focused on SBMM. 15. I think that the timer and “do (blank) to get more time on the clock” thing is a cool modifier. But it shouldn’t be on every nightfall. Put that into a large pool of other cool modifiers and each week give me a random challenge. 16. I don’t care 17. the farm is a sad waste of space. It needs some sort of purpose. A weapon test range is a cool idea 18. I really feel that the best part and the thing that kept D1 so re playable was the constant quest for the best gear that matched your play style. Whether it be the perfect stats and perks on that helmet you think looks cool, or the perfect roll on the scout rifle you like. Add in more mod slots and interesting/inventive mods to be added to weapons and armor , and the current shader system and you got a fully customizable character. Your character is your character. 19. Agreed 20. Agreed. I’m just running out of stuff to do, reasons to do them, and I have everything. The game can be better.

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              • More to chase. Yes. The game is so empty, it is sad. Is bungie trying to revert to a Ubisoft quality experience....ugh,why I've posted before, never recorded any moments to DVR in D2, none. Why not. Well that's the problem, there are no special moments in pve or pvp. Nova or fist on heavy to clear 4+ opponents, then running with the heavy for a streak was always a thrill. Gally Wolfpacks for the save on a boss.. whatever...I don't have one single, sharable thrilling moment in D2...and I foresee very few coming. Even MOTW posts are weak content Christ, axsis raid fight looks like a huge achievement compared to anything in D2, and I would gladly take cathedral of dusk back just to make crucible fun again. Rift anyone? 4000 hrs of D1 and I can't see me playing even 400 in D2....sad but not mad...just a missed opportunity for bungie

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              • I've not played since the beta but what I feel most strongly about (besides dedicated servers) is that bungie NEEDS to let go of this damaging pipe dream of having pve and pvp remain the same across the sandbox. It simply was a bad decision and for all their back tracking I just DO NOT understand why they are being so stubborn about this issue. Split them the -blam!- up already! If bungie is spending however much money Nathan fillions going rate is to say there will be tons of loot then for God's sake give us tons of loot. Borderlands 2 came out 5 years ago now. We live in a post borderlands world where an open world shooter with tons of loot with light rpg elements has a foundation. So just separate the two modes of play already, and completely redo the crucible. Halo 3 is ten years old this year and that game was filled to bursting with maps and game types of all the colors of the rainbow. Destiny 2, in my amateur opinion is bungie and Activisions attempt to build a money making machine with absolutely no personality, effort, or soul. It's as entertaining as an std.

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              • These are amazing ideas but they need to go into the feedback forum more so than this one.

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              • Probably one of the best posts I've seen on the forum regardless if I agree with all points or not! Well thought out reasoning AND you provided proposed solutions! I would lump 9, 11 & 12 all together on this one. I'm still loving D2 and no doubt spending more time than I probably should. The problem I've run in to is that there was a large chunk of activity that became irrelevant before and shortly after finishing the campaign. Most of the World Adventures, lost sectors and non-nightfall strikes are all still sitting out there because there was no benefit to revisiting them. The loot from those aren't up to my current power level and no good for anything more than weapon materials for Banshee. I would love to see some sort of tiered loot or bounty or quest that would send me back to finish that content and make it worth it. Right now, it feels like there is wasted effort sitting on the table but when I have Call to Arms, Flashpoint, Nightfall and Raid to work on each week, what is the sense in spending the time returning to Adventures and regular strikes? Again, great post and so refreshing to see something OTHER than "Upvote if you don't like blah blah blah"! I would not be surprised at all if your post DOES get Bungie attention just due to the content and tone. Nice job OP! (Although, I will admit that I wouldn't mind a few less Supremacy matches in PvP ;)

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              • I read your first suggestion and gave you a downvote. 4v4 crucible is an actual competitive pvp experience. There is nothing more frustrating than getting killed by noobs who run around the map and spam heavy and super. I thought this thread was supposed to be about end game and you immediately complain about a core mechanic of the game that you just can't seem to get over. Probably because all the people who don't like 4v4 have never played a competitive shooter that's not call of duty or destiny.

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                • Although I don't agree with everything you said, I'll give you an upvote for offering your opinion without whining, and presenting them in a well written and thought out way. More posts should be like this, thanks for taking the initiative to writing something like this.

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                • These posts need to stop there's literally 1000s of them all we can do is wait and hope something is done other then that don't waste your time or effort on posting these huge things they will never read

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                  • CoE = Court of Eyrx? On a serious note though, I really like this post. There is something nice about seeing someone suggesting solutions rather than just crying about their issues with the game. I genuinely doubt they will see this, but I'm gonna upvote in the hope that it helps!

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                    • Very well written and thought out post. :) Some points I agree with, some, not so much. Hey, we ALL have our opinions on this game. ;) I was rather disappointed about the farm when I realized the only reason to go there was to watch the grass grow. I'm assuming they will add in reasons to go back in future DLC's. I've also learned to NEVER assume anything, when it comes to what they might (or might not) do that might be beneficial to the player base. ;)

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                      • Felt the need to respond since it is an opinion post actually worth reading. 1) Do not really have an issue with the way it is currently. If they change it, I'd be fine with different sized teams. 2) With the high exotic drop rate in the current game, XUR is for casuals and thus likely stays. I have no problem with him as current. 3) Agree 4) Not an issue for me. 5) I've not had any issues with the token system. 8 IB packages turned in and IB loot has been in all of them. In addition, a "normal" legendary was in all 8, as well. 6) Agree, plus make some not all of them more difficult to get either by decreased drop rates or harder activities required. 7) Agree 8) I'd probably never play the campaign again. I've already played it 3 times, so I'd rather they focus elsewhere. 9) I agree more endgame, but I would lean toward more cooperative not solo. 10) Record book was not really a big deal for me in D1, so I'd rather they focus elsewhere. 11) Power level matters now, it is just that they made it very easy to level compared to D1 at release. Too easy if you ask me. I still remember trying VOG as a 24 or 25. It was much harder. Then don't forget forever 29. You were underpowered for hardmode so it was harder. Everyone is now overpowered for everything with the exception of the prestige nightfall and soon to be prestige raid. I guess in the absence of new material, they could go in and make the normal nightfall 300 and then prestige like 310 or 320 or make heroic strike list at significantly higher levels. 12) Not had any issue with this loot rarity. Done IB and ranked up 8 times. 8 pieces of IB loot. Raid has rewarded multiple pieces of gear everytime. If anything, I'd argue, they made the loot too easy to get overall. 13) Agree, make it slightly harder to level as well in between content. 14) Not an issue. I actually don't mind crucible in it's current state. I did not like D1 crucible especially toward the end. 15) Timers are fine by me. In most cases, I've not felt really rushed once you figure out how to get time. If they wanted to make an untimed version so people could try and solo, I'd be fine with it. 16) Not really interested 17) Maybe they have a plan for the farm later, but yes I never go there for anything once finished with the story. 18) Sounds good 19) No argument with more content 20) Agree. Especially more to chase. For me, I'd prefer the game to be "harder" and take a bit more time to level but I understand the current appeal to many who play less time.

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                        • Editado por MurderrTrain: 10/13/2017 4:28:23 PM
                          Add more activities on the leviathan. It such a fascinating area and we only see such a little portion of it. Make these activities like watered down raids. Like a mix between strikes and raids. Something that less knowledgeable players can use to get a handle on what kind of challenge the raid offers. Just water it down so a group of randoms can figure out mechanics without too much frustration or communication, but more complicated than "go to this waypoint and kill mobs along the way". [b]Edit-[/b] anyone else concerned about the fact that this post has 1/5 the upvotes as the post talking about how shitty the fighting lion is.

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                        • Most important number 14 completely redo crucible. Just about the only things better about it are reduced abilities and that stickies dont mean instant death.

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                        • Ooo. Constructive criticism, instead of hyperbole and salt. Have an up arrow.

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