Agreed fully and stupidly bungie listened to the minority and ruined their own game.

No little kids who cry Nerf or OMG this gun,ability,super is op plz Nerf ruined this game. I've played with tons of different people kids and adults a like from personal experience it's the kids who cry the most about said things.

Pvp players ruined D1. #truth

No whiny, bitchy, useless people did.

Bungie has, streamers are not destiny developers

Streamers ruin most shooters

I've been putting bets on with friends about the first Pvp complaints to hit the forums after 30minutes of release. It's a dead cert.

From my perspective, I prefer the YouTubers that use discernment to see what Destiny is doing right and wrong. The way many of us see the games objectively. Criticism and love at the same time. What I don't like is every other big YouTuber clickbaiting on SUPER-HYPING literally nothing. "Look at this rifle omg guys I can't wait! Are you excited!? I'm not getting paid to tell you this! Buy this game because it looks cool. Aren't you excited?" That's not customer-worthy. Even if the steak looks yummy in the commercial, I remember when I ordered it the first time from that restaurant. I don't expect it to be perfect the second time. I might think critically and not have a date with my girl at this steak house due to my previous outing. Same goes for D2. Just a thought.

Another thing I wanted to add to this discussion is the fact that in a game with so many different weapons with so many possible rolls, it is disgusting to see a few particular weapons easily dominate every other weapon. You want to know when the most fun the crucible is? It's right after a weapon balancing patch. People don't know the meta because guess what "there isn't one." There would be people using all sorts of different weapons and combinations of subclasses. Those games would really keep you on your toes and i would constantly ask myself "whoa what is that weapon," that is untill some streamer finds somthing that dominates above all else and everyone watching just follows suit. Then BAM right back into predictable boring crucible again. I know that people will always find weapons that are good, and that there are some weapons that are great in pve but suck in pvp and vice versa "ever used the last word in a raid" BUT the meta finding effect is extrapolated by streamers and their followers. It also dosent help to know that bungie puts their input at a higher standard then everyone else simply because "streamers keep the game alive" which is the biggest load of bullshit I've heard in the almost 4 years this game has still maintained a decent player base.

really its not the streamers but, those who follow like sheep.

Your post is contradicting. Year one was the worst for weapons. Every post for raid was must be 30 till it turned to 34 and must have gally. And then right before they changed everything they still nerfed that. Oh and thorn in pvp and that was nerfed. So ya year one was the same as two and three. Not hating anything your saying just saying year one was no better.

Uh, they kept it alive. Bungie listened to feedback from GAME DATA too, not just the community. They don't just take (Youtuber)s opinion and just balance based on them, they look at data graphs and listen to what we want. We got it. Deal with it

I'd argue that streamers saved Destiny, despite all the issues it had in Vanilla they stayed with the game and helped build up the overall community. It became very popular because of Trials and people sherpaing. In a game like Destiny (FPS MMO RPG) nerfs and buffs are inevitable and unavoidable. As far as complaining, people voice their frustration when they are outplayed by a better player or are unable to perform when using a certain weapon. Like you said, "adapt and stop bitching."

Bungie community is resistant to streamers purely on the fact that streamers tend to play PvP well and the bungie community, generally composed of mid tier to low tier PvE main players and minority PvP mains, resent that. It is at it's most obvious point when the community is asking for certain changes to PvP back in Y1 and the streamers would not defend the changes made by communities such as Bungie's and often times instead try and persuade them to a different narrative. The community has grown against the streamers as a bunch of 'pubstompers' who think they know it all and in turn try to downplay and undermine their opinion / gameplay whenever they disagree with them. While at the same time, the bungie community tends to blame them for the mistakes that the community has made in pushing the changes. Some streamers are guilty of this too, they only conform to popular opinion because they're afraid to lose views, so they promote majority mindset but they don't last long because they're not dynamic in personality to be able to hold their own ground and it shows in lackluster gameplay. Other PvP youtubers / Steamers who have integrity are generally the top tier ones who understand the game completely and public opinion does not sway their belief although they do address the elephant in the room. These guys tend to be the ones with the biggest influence with the PvP community. Basically the problem is: you have a bunch of low skilled /middle skilled majority who BELIEVE they hold more insight than those who play the game for a living who have proven consistently to play at a high level that people look to them as insight to higher skill play. Yet the majority believe they know more on PvP matters then these High level streamers AND Bungie. That is why PvP conformed to the lowest denominator and that is why the Bungie community in general will continue to be resistant to streamer's opinions that conflict with theirs at a constant level and I expect to see this move forward with D2 as well. Edit- I remember Mtash posting on this forum last month with his views on the beta and it was almost buried even though a majority of his points were exactly on point and indicative of someone who CARES about the actual direction of a better PvP for everybody. It was met with mass downvotes despite his high popularity on Youtube as a D1 PvP youtuber. People just resented him posting here for the sake that he did it here, that itself is the problem. When the majority begins to resent people just for being good at something and then automatically not allowing them to promote a voice because they just don't like them. It's not just damaging to the game, but also it's damaging to a healthy community and generally the 'fanboys' are the biggest ones to blame for this as they just hate any critism whatsoever if its not seen as positve, they turn off and just see it as 'salt'. That kind of reckless ignorance makes a game fickle. I'm not the least bit surpised about how this community acts and how the end product of an Activision game turns out. It's really a study of human mob mentality and corporate behavior.