Before I get into anything, since I'm sure it'll get brought up at some point, let me first note that I am going to be playing D2 on PC and therefore have not first-hand experienced D2's "slow supers." That said, it also means I am qualified to have an extremely neutral position on the matter. After analyzing several Inverted Spire runs (I assume the mission is staged very differently and they probably choke supers in PvP in a different way for balance reasons) I can say without a doubt that supers are not slower. They are the same as they were in Destiny 1 when you account for the loss of 1:30 shave on INT builds. [b]The maths:[/b] Fuzzy data #1: [spoiler]Unfortunately since [i]nobody[/i] seems to have had the foresight to clock baseline idle super charge speed, I snapped a 0:30 bar growth off of a video, cropped the bar, and then stacked it along the bar line until it hit the end. This would suggest 5:00 give or take a few pixels.[/spoiler] . Correction: 7:30 now that I finally got to see it. Weird that no footage seemed to suggest that but nothing beats a good ol stopwatch and actually being in the beta. Fuzzy data #2: Having analyzed multiple bar jumps from orbs, kills, and precision kills between Inverted Spire and current Destiny 1 strike videos (within the last 6 months), the same general bar "size" growth occurs. I even went the extra mile to try and find videos of people who only hit one or zero INT breakpoints on gear for Destiny 1 footage. Normalized data #1: I checked timestamps of multiple supers used across several runs of the Inverted Spire and found these data points: Average Super time: 4:36 Worst Super time: 6:51 (includes 4 deaths between supers) Best Super time: 3:22 Average # Supers per strike: 3 Average strike time: 22m Normalized data #2: I checked timestamps of multiple supers used across several runs of Sepiks Perfected and Wretched Eye: Average Super time: 2:00 (2:30s delta) Worst Super time: 3:30 (3:21s delta) Best Super time: 1:08 (2:14s delta) Average # Supers per strike: 3 Average strike time: 12m But wait, you say! The difference in super times is clearly well beyond the 1:30 that full INT builds provides. This is true! But keep in mind the frame of reference. Current D1 content is end of end stage. People playing these strikes are extremely comfortable in their build, kit, weapons, and have run the strikes a million times, know where to maximize orb drops when using supers, etc. People playing the beta right now are trying new things, moving slower, using stuff they are not accustomed to in a place they are not used to, so they have a lot more "idle" time between supers. Plus, the strike is very clearly much slower overall (confirmed by watching of course) and there are much longer pauses between combat and much fewer enemies per encounter, which translates to slower super times overall. Sure, supers are definitely coming in slower than D1 vets are used to, but that shouldn't be alarming or surprising to anyone. They're not going to [i]start a new game[/i] with you rolling back to back 2:00 super times. In fact, the super times you are getting at the beginning of Destiny 2 are the same INT-unmodified super times you got in original Destiny 1 content. Nearest I can figure, semi-active low level play in Destiny 1 gained about the same (3:00 to 3:30 orbless) Super charge time as Destiny 2 beta play does (no INT) but obviously way less than full INT Destiny 1 builds do (1:45-2:00). In fact, I wouldn't put it past them to have reduced the amount you get from kills/orbs just a tiny bit given the fact that everyone has a 3rd ability now. I'm fine even if it ends up being a bit longer just because supers are supposed to feel big and crazy and impactful. Having them like literally every encounter made shooting guns feel like just padding time between supers, and I'm certainly glad for what appears to be PvP no longer being an endless chain of supers after two minutes of a match. Am I gonna miss full INT Bad JuJu strikes? Sure, but I'm also completely fine with keeping supers feeling "super." Inb4 I get my hands on PC beta in August and freak out too =P Edit - After playing on the X1 beta it looks like the super times are about 7:30 natural, so that is indeed a huge jump. If monster kills and orbs grant the same reduction, then we are in fact looking at an average 2~2:30 more per super. Less, of course, due to how most players hang on to them for a while and thus many kills are "wasted." Still though, it felt slower, but I also never felt like I really had reason to use them every two minutes the way the strike was paced. PvP on the other hand, I wish they came like, 30s earlier. Just once a fight is fine, but I'd rather have them be able to turn a match and hold onto it near the end than snap it around at the match's zenith.

Keep in mind that it's just a beta. We might get armor mods that decrease cooldowns.

Could do with being a bit faster in PVE but im quite enjoying PVP without players popping a super every few minutes.

It's pretty bad in PvP too. I just played an entire match of Control and didn't get my super. Granted I was getting slammed on by a 4-man clan team, I should still have at least gotten [i]one[/i].

Same

Bump. I think pve should have around a one and a half charge faster. [i]Good Day Sir[/i]

Abilities in general need faster cool down in pve. Just tad more in pvp. I think pvp is in a good spot right now.

Yeah, from what I hear, the supers are [u]super[/u] slow to charge. Lol, maybe that's why they're called supers... (I know, not funny). But seriously, Bungie, everyone can fire a gun the same way no matter if you're a Warlock or Titan or Hunter. We like the classes because of their abilities they bring the field. By limiting the whole game to almost solely rely on gun play because of really long regen times is detrimental to why we have classes in the first place. I don't want ability spam (which is great by reducing OHK potiental of abilities) but you shouldn't just shaft supers in a way that they're not very significant in PvP, and seemingly void of real meaningful impact in PvE. We want to feel super with our classes, not like a spartan that gets two grenades every few minutes and a slam that does nothing. The super should be a tool of aggression, not a saved last resort because you won't get it again for a super long while (which brings back memories of holding onto self-res the whole match). IMO, supers should be charged around that half way point of a crucible match, if you get an average amount of kills, or about 2/3 in without many kills. Then, if the team coordinates their orbs of light, they can manage to get a second super around the end of the match for your 'clutch' super plays. That way you can actually use your supers with a purpose (rather than just ramboing the last 2 minutes...) and reward a team that shuts down/stays alive long enough to benefit from those supers. Especially since you've made supers more vulnerable to guns and unable to easily shutdown other supers. I think that would encourage more supers into the fray instead of less of them. Because... right now, there seems to be no point for orbs of light in the crucible. You don't profit from doing well with them in the long run for the team. It's just one round of blind abandon and you're done. Back to primary.

Getting a super after 5 minutes was awesome...now it take 8 minutes in PVP and I'm in first place with the best KD....the gun play is good, but ttk is too long and the weapons are not "balanced" so when you don't have a super or an ability it is just too slow and frustrating...maybe it take getting used to but I at least think 1 super a game should be a given..I[ve played too many control games where I don't even get 1 before I get mercy'd or win...kinda stupid...your guns are not that good...supers and abilities are what make Destiny Destiny

I very much agree about them being too slow to charge. But it's not just them, but also grenades, reloading and the gameplay itself feels slower. The most underwhelming super for me was the new Hunter's super with a stick. Flashy, sure, but try to actually land a hit with all those stupid acrobatics. And pretty much useless against bosses. Warlock's nova bomb is slooow af, but at least it explodes into 3 smaller ones that are quicker and aggressively seek enemies. Which is something at least. The most powerful one was the good old bubble.

I agree, the supers are very fun to use. At least 30 seconds faster recharge would help or more super energy from orbs

Your right in PVE I feel weak, could be because we're locked at 200 power(the same as the enemies, which feels the same as d1); and the rest of your abilities with the slow cool down they should atleast do the same amount of damage as they used to otherwise I'd like the cool downs to atleast take somewhere between 40-20 seconds to cool down. Another note, is that sometimes I feel that enemies are doing better damage per second than I am.

Agreed