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Editado por kellen100:
2/20/2017 9:47:45 PM
338
Opinions on Sidearm usage. Please share!
Edit: I could NOT BE ANY HAPPIER WITH THIS POST. We've been top 5 trending for several hours. Lots of opinions and conversations flowing. Salt has been kept at a wonderfully low level. I love when the community can come together and really talk things out. This is what destiny needs, and I'm so thankful and proud of every one here for being so passionate about the game we all love! GGs everyone.
[WARNING: OPINIONATED WALL OF TEXT INBOUND, Please feel free to skip and share opinions as you like]
So, lets talk about the sidearm, and it's overbearing presence in the crucible.
First off I'd like to state the obvious fact that sidearms are NOT OP and were quite rare before the update, aside from nlb users, and our dear friends TrueVanguard and Kjhovey.
Their TTK's range from a minimum of .6 to a maximum of .96 dependant on archetype and headshots landed. As impressive as that sounds their range holds them in a balanced position as powerful short ranged duelers, meant for back up and shotgun countering purposes, and work exactly as they should.
Now, and this is only my opinion, the distaste for sidearms at the moment isn't because of their power, it's simply that the ammo economy forces us into using them. A sidearm has the ability to over power any primary with ease, within its optimal range.
When you have no special, being a common occurrence in the current state of things, you are simply at a disadvantage to a sidearm user.
Ammo persists, more ammo is reimbursed on respawn if empty, and as it seems all this points to MORE slaying potential. This forces many into a position of "use this or do worse."
Did you enjoy being an aggressive sniper, despite the horrid nerfs? A shotty warrior maybe? Maybe you were that elusive fusion main who loves to go for crazy plan c swaps, or cross map people with a saladins. Maybe you feel upset that your aggressive playstyles were almost taken from you entirely, especially in the 6v6 playlist. You have every right to be. Because forcing someone into a style of gameplay they don't enjoy IS NOT BALANCE. It is a lazy and unprofessional attempt to stir the pot.
Bad move bungie. You may have forced primary fights, but you've removed a large portion of the fun for many.
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2 RespuestasEditado por Zildjian: 2/21/2017 3:18:43 PMGood post. I'm kind of in agreement with you here. I just think that Bungie have decided to really shake up how we all approach the Crucible and so in turn this [i]new Meta[/i] [b]feels like[/b] it's been forced on us? But then again we still have the option to use whatever we want don't we? We adapt. As a rule I've always mained Fusions in PvP, I'm one of the elusive 2%ers, but I also use Sidearms and have dabbled with them for quite a while now. Vestian, Dreg's, JabbeHäkke, Havoc, Queen's Choice… They've all had a run out, but the game changers for me were [b]Ironwreath-D[/b] and more recently the [b]Trespasser[/b]. Those two are beasts… [i]My best Ironwreath has Crowd Control, Hot Swap and HCR on it and is lethal from quite a distance.[/i] I played a lot of Crucible over the weekend and at first ran with a Fusion. I did notice pretty quickly how many people people were running Wormwood… (I don't have one) so I switched to Ironwreath purely so I could compete. Which sort of backs up your argument that this new style is being forced on us. But I was getting an obscene amount kills with it... which had I been running Fusion, wouldn't have been the case. Personally I'm all for more Primary engagements and the fact that Special Ammo spawns every minute hasn't really made a difference to me, but with a Sidearm you don't have to think about it, you don't have to find an ammo crate, it's always there which does kind of make things a little unbalanced, unfair. If you can't beat em, join em as they say. I'll still use Fusions in normal Crucible I guess, I mean I can still swap to a Sidearm whenever, but it'll be interesting to see what the next Iron Banner is like… NLB and Wormwood I'd hazard a guess.
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Damn...well said.
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Wow agree... but this style does fit the way i play. But to be honest my style was just fine against players pushing hard before the patch, i rearily got above 20 kills before with my playing style. usually had right at 1 k/d sometimes above and sometime below, Things haven't changed. Still doing a little better on the K/d ( maybe i'm getting better😬) but now 15 kills is becoming rear, due to the slow pace. I wish they would of left the special ammo were it was and just nerfed the shotgun sniper matador ( that all that needed) The balance on primaries right now is awesome 👍👍. However i miss out shooting a running sliding shotty . ( it was part of the game) or being that annoying invisible hunter flanking a sniper. 🤓. I keep reading post about how op sidearms are and im not experiencing it. I bet i can count on one hand how many times i have been killed by one. Is it me. Or do other players here think that grenades are stronger now . Maybe it is because of the health regen thing. But last night i had a game were i was killed five straight times my grenades. Just wondering. Peace out and have fun😀
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I love that there's versatility in Primary usage, forced or not. IMO, it feels like this patch/balance was pretty lazy. After all the hype about all their "testing and fine tuning" we all expected something with actual "fine tuning". The sidearms are just a viable choice right now. I've used them since before the patch at a disadvantage in many circumstances. They're not OP, but are a prevalent secondary force when you're forced out of most options.
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I've always used a sidearm with my scout rifle and my lmg. It's my best loadout.
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Death should leave you 1, maybe 2 special ammo, imo. Just something to counter.
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2 RespuestasWhich is the best sidearm??
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Editado por Cowhand7: 2/21/2017 3:45:44 PMLast night I was one-shot killed by a sidearm. In other encounters, I was frequently killed by two shots from a sidearm If I run on to a team mostly using sidearms, I just leave and go to another match. I think Bungie has added a cool down to getting into another match, if you leave one. I just use the extra time to do dishes, wash or fold clothes, or watch tv while I am waiting for the next game to start.....no big deal. I guess they want us to run a NLB sniper and a sidearm. Heck, why didn't they just put sidearms in the primary slot and the NLB in the special slot? That would have ensured that primaries would be in major use again.
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It would be fine if the ammo didn't stack
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Bungee basically "fixed" special weapons by making them impossible to use. Sidearms are only good because they have ammo all the time. Bungee should have buffed primaries so they were the most powerful weapons. After all they are PRIMARY. They should be used the most. Special weapons are for SPECIAL encounters. They shouldn't be the go to weapon for getting kills.
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2 RespuestasI have no problem with sidearms how they currently are. I have no problem with their abilities, their stats, the possible rolls, or the retention of ammo after death (including after picking up more from crates). What I do have a problem with, though, is the fact they are the only real viable option for a secondary weapon in PVP. Sure, you can use others and still perform well, but when you find yourself in a pinch and have no special ammo, your primary is very unlikely to save you. No matter what your skill level, you always want to run your most optimal loadout for PVP. The guaranteed special ammo, coupled with the strong and fast stopping power makes them the only real choice, unless you really, really want to camp and have a slow match. I don't want sidearms to be touched by the nerf steamroller, but I would like the special ammo economy to be looked at again. I would suggest starting with less special ammo and crates giving less ammo at the very least.
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4 RespuestasI felt forced into using a shotty in the last meta. How is this different? I'm enjoying sidearms tbh. I hated that ppl could run at me with a shotty and unless I had one and timed my shot perfectly, there was nothing I could do but die to what I felt was a cheap 1 shot kill. I'm actually enjoying myself in pvp atm.
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1 RespuestaIt's a bit silly that so many people are using sidearms just because of the special ammo retention. Because even though they retain ammo, they also don't function like any other special, being more akin to primaries in the sense that they are the only special in the game that lacks one-hit-kill potential. Seriously, a lot of sidearms get out gunned in terms of TTK by a lot of primaries. Add to that the shotgun-esque range and you can see why Bungie originally conceived of sidearms being primary weapons. Every other special can one-shot, and yet people are leaving those weapons behind for what is in effect a (very effective) primary type gun in the secondary slot.
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Maybe everyone just decided to work on the sidearm kills gromoire.....at the same time.
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honestly you should lose some special when you die with a sidearm like if you have 60 special ammo and you die then you respawn with 40 but if you have 23 you still respawn with 23. something like that so sidearms aren't the ONLY choice for special but a GOOD choice.
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1 RespuestaI have been using sidearms as my main special weapon since the first time Iron Banner sold the Ironwreath-D. So for me nothing really changes much. I do understand it is annoying for people who use something else than a sidearm, and something should be changed very soon. It doesn’t take long before I have 113 rounds on my sidearm (the max I can hold)… The sidearm is the only special weapon that is not a one hit kill. So I understand Bungie finds it hard to know what to do with it’s special ammo. But 113 when you die versus 0 when you die is way too big of a difference. I think when you die you should lose one shot from your sniper, shotgun or fusion rifle when you die. Not everything…. If Bungie wants us to use less special and more primary weapons, they should simply make primaries more powerful. But that is not the case. Hand cannons still have ghost bullets and grasp/clever dragon pulse rifles have gotten their balls removed instead of simply reducing the damage per bullet a bit…… Things will never change. Bungie will make something OP and says that was never their intention. They nerf that weapon into oblivion and make something else OP. The cycle continues. There is never any search for balance. Because balance would stop the grind and a new meta does not.
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Sidearms are just hand cannons in the special slot - and I hate hand cannons, don't have the reflexes or skill to use them well. And it's really boring to sit around and wait for a special crate - destroys the flow of the game. I'm pretty much out. And yes, before you look at my stats, I suck in crucible, patch or no patch (<1 KD). But for all you studs out there with a 1+ KD, understand you need sucky scrubs like me to get there. And this is one scrub you won't have around to boost your stats as a result of this patch.
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1 RespuestaThey are ok, but do not support my Cocytus in the way that I prefer. While I like a few things, no meta feels less like Destiny than this one. Things just feel incredibly less enjoyable. I will adapt, because I always do. However, I would like to be a snowflake and not a cookie... I understand Bungie isn't required to explain or discuss changes with us, but they absolutely should. I was not or have never been wowed with the live team's level of skill and I am convinced that they do not understand the nuances of the game as we do. This forum is a shitshow of complaints but it is a decent (not perfect) barometer of player issues. Some of these changes just seem unwarranted and unneeded. I really would like to know wtf they are thinking when they throw a pebble into the pond, even if it is just to stir the pot.
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1 RespuestaI've never seen so much variety in PvP myself. Ammo is everywhere, so once the dust settles, people will use their favorite builds IMO.
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4 RespuestasEditado por ekeri_: 2/20/2017 11:36:37 PMFor me, this patch is completely ruining my game experience in Destiny, it isn't fun anymore. I main a sniper since The Taken King was launched, since then I enjoyed very much the Crucible, even the the old meta of Matador's 64 and Clever Dragon. My trusty Last Word would tear those shotgun warriors apart and my godly roll LDR 5001 would kill any Clever Dragon user. But now ? With no Special Ammo ? I need to be extra careful to not die and when I die, I need to always keep a look at special all the time, and that isn't fun at all. [quote]I want to spend 100% of the match focusing on shooting people, not feeling like it's a chore to find special. The sidearm completely overrides this. It's a clear choice to choose a sidearm.[/quote] [url]https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/5v53nm/the_special_weapon_economy_is_forcing_the_meta/[/url]
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I just use nothing but primary an abilities now an may snipe at beginning of game but as far as that goes I just use my trusty handcannon.
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Sidearms are FAR from overpowered. Problem is though they are probably going to get nerfed because there usage rate is so high, even though Bungie put in a balance patch with that obviously side effect.
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This is my opinion on them. They need to have no ammo on death just like every other special. If they don't want to do that, give other specials their ammo back. People talk about more primary usage, and while that may be, all I ever see are sidearms. People just replaced their shotguns with them now. These are people that have 0 clue how to use anything that they actually have to try with.
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The changes to special ammo aren't dramatic as I thought. I still use a shotgun or a sniper. People with sidearms are just trying find the meta. With time people will begin using their old specials again.
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1 RespuestaLove it. Been a sidearm user for a while now so this update just fell right into my lap. Mida+Wormwood all the way.
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3 RespuestasGood, well thought out post. I think the crucible will settle down in a week or so and maybe players will revert to their old favorites (Plan C for me), especially in 6v6. I don't really play trials but I can imagine that that's a bigger problem. You either win the first round 3-0 or use sidearms to get ammo. Guardian.gg says over 30% of kills in trials are sidearms and shotguns are down to 3% this weekend. Either way it's clear Bungie didn't test the patch or think about the impact on all the game types and that's unprofessional.
