They are called primaries for a reason u are supposed to use them most of the game and if you like shotguns just use universal remote and if u like sniper use no land beyond there is a simple solution for most of the problems people have been saying

You all don't seem to understand that it doesn't matter what WE think. What matters is what THEY think. Updates and changes are NOT dictated by what WE think. Its what THEY think.

Bump. At first I was very pleased with the patch. My hand canons hit their targets, no more shotgun warriors, rumble matches with 90% primary kills, destroying clueless shotgunners. I absolutely loved it. As I continued to play over next few days I started very quickly to dislike it. Hand canons feel very very dominant, to the point where a solid eyasluna shot could outgun anything in the game. pulse rifle or an auto can not compete with them. (That is NOT calling for a nerf). Sidearms are annoying. They can outgun any primary within short range (half of all engagements are probably short range). They literally never run out of ammo. In my opinion they should play by the same rules as other specials. JUST KIDDING THOSE RULES ARE TRASH. The new special economy is very annoying. They need to revert it. Picking up a box every life is tedious especially knowing that you probably won't even get to use it. Sidearms are incredibly boring to use. They're just higher damage lower range primaries that are spammy an annoying. There's no real play style to them, just slide around and spam trigger. See the thing is that shotgunning, sniping and fusion rifles all were very fun and took a certain amount of skill to fully master. You could also make some really cool plays with them unlike sidearms. As primaries got weaker, the effectiveness of these SPECIAL weapons increased. So what does bungie do instead of providing actual alternatives to special weapons (buff primaries). Bungie takes special away from us away from us. [spoiler]btw @bungie mayhem is broken, special spawns every 60 seconds instead of 30. Also let us keep special after death in mayhem because mayhem is mayhem. Also make "keep special ammo after death" an option in private matches because the special nerf probably ruined many people's private match experience.[/spoiler] Many things were completely ignored. -gunslinger buff -sunsinger buff -blink still garbage -pulse grenades, thermite, arcbolts, firebolts are all still garbage -most archetypes of shotguns are still garbage -despite being buffed, auto rifles are still not very competitive -high impact pulses needed a damage buff instead of a rate of fire buff -spike and lightning grenades' cones are still terribly represented. -snipers are still trash -fusions are still inconsistent at times -more...

Anyone who likes the new special ammo probably has a k/d less than 1 or is still a Christmas newb. Oh it's awesome not having a shotgun shoved up your butt at respawn? How about being pecked at with a sidearm then? By a person who will have to search out special ammo 5xs less as you do? And even though they don't lose special ammo, they can build up their supply anyway because special drops just as much for them? This isn't balanced when you're going up against 1 or more people who will almost always have the option of a 2nd gun. Whiny pvp lobbyists are ruining the game one update at a time. But don't worry, we will adjust to the changes and the meta-warriors will picket bungie again for something else. I don't think a petition is going to do anything except make things worse at next update. In bungies eyes, the opinions of the small percentage of streamers and you tubers far outweigh the rest of us.

bumping.... may i point out that after hunters trip mines got nerfed to not stick people, i started a petition, had over 2000 bumps and was trending for a few days.. bungie done shit all about it. if this pvp goes into D2 than i shall not be wasting my money

Funny how people are upset about not being able to main OHK weapons that from the start had absurdly to much ammo. Love the change and hope not stays but needs a few tweaks.

The problem simply is the actual design. If Bungie would have made it like Halo, where you have to pick up power weapons, nobody would complain. The whole concept of actually having any special (power) weapon, is just absurd for a game like Destiny, especially when all special weapons behave like Halos power weapons and not, let's say like a sniper in Battlefield which is useless in cqc or mid range situations. Another fact is, if you even decide to do this and have a PvP, why do special weapons with ammo regeneration or primary snipers/shotguns even exist? Why even come close to the concept for such a gun when PvP and PvE are a unified experience where players can use everything they have in their inventory. People got used to the whole special-from-start-and-no-weapon-pickup-in-PvP design since Destiny launched. That's ok for PvE. But later Bungie realized this was a huuuuge in PvP, when people started to get better and didn't even used their primary anymore. It was a mistake which I would agree with (because it is simply annoying getting shotgunned or sniped all the time). We went trough several ammo economy nerfs because of that fact alone(!), special type nerfs etc. and yet people will look for every gap for having a second weapon choice because that's the way Destiny worked and was designed and people were welcomed with. No matter what Bungie changes it's way too late to try to change the design of the Crucible (or even the whole game, even in PvE) and how it was originally concepted. So I really hope D2 has weapon pick ups in PvP so we actually get a new feel right from the start and not somehwere mid-game of Destinys lifecycle. A shotgun, for example, can be OP was hell...only if it is a one time use by one player. I do appreciate Bungies wish for more usage of primary guns. I mean, it shows that they learned from mistakes (in my eyes) and it somwhow makes me feel a bit better about D2. I can deal with the current state though. It's still better than a shotgun infested crucible. At least you need to aim with pistols :p

Let us keep our special on death and start of rounds, Bungie literally killed sniping the most fun thing in the game and it's gone, I dismantled my devils dawn, literally my favorite gun in the game, because it is basically unusable now. I dont claim to know everything about games and balancing, but making every special but sidearms near unusable, doesn't seem like balancing to me, it seems like killing off weapons, amd their game. I loved trials and PvP, it's all I did. Now the only thing I'm gonna do is go into rumble modes and try and juke people to try and get a laugh or two out of a game.

Going to have to agree with OP at this point. Up until last night I had not given snipes a run post patch. Had not had any problems with the special economy with shottys, fusion rifles, and couple of games with a side arm (of course it was fine). My experience last night with a sniper was atrocious... I thought it was rough sniping after the sniper rifle nerf, but holy fuk balls. Even on maps that have good lanes, it was frustrating because you can't challenge anything. And when you lose that battle, back to finding a crate. And trying to do the gunsmith test sniper, even more maddening. Finished all three crucible test primaries and stuck at 50% on the rifle... WTF!!!

Ur failing to understand special is special it's not meant to be used all the time and your only pointing out trials .... regular crucible is just fine for anything , a sidearm takes wayyyy more skill than any shotgunner now and before