I was initially in favor of this aspect of the update, figured it would ultimately result in matches with less heavy, and be a more interesting game, more emphasis on primary weapon skill. If heavy was, for instance, removed altogether, this probably would have been more the case.
(Not advocating that, just citing an example)
But,
After playing a handful of Crucible matches this morning, I'm pretty disappointed. Here's why:
The risk/reward factor of targeting and killing a guy with heavy has been removed, making the game less exciting, and less rewarding for skill.
Also, now those who do get heavy have a steeper advantage. Contrast these two scenarios, both of which feature one team gaining the upper hand as heavy becomes available:
"Heavy ammo available"
Alpha get's their heavy and also manages to either steal the Bravo's heavy drop or wipe most of Bravo's team as they pick it up. Uh-oh, things are looking grim for Bravo. What happens next?
Pre 1.1.1
The play here was to do your best to avoid choking on Alpha's rockets until they blew them some other random on your team, OR, nut up and go hunt a heavy carrier and turn things around, maybe using your super to outplay one of those smug, machine gun toting jerks on Alpha team. An added layer of strategy, and a chance to turn a bad situation to your favor, all because you could get heavy back off a kill.
Losing heavy did not mean losing the game.
Post 1.1.1
The play here is to do your best to avoid choking on Alpha's rockets until they blow them some other random on your team, OR, well, actually, there isn't much else to do here. Alpha knows no one on Bravo has heavy anymore, so they (a) hunt you mercilessly like the poor helpless rabbits you are, or (b) set up a campsite and kill Bravo in their choice of doorways.
The key difference is, Alpha has little to lose by dying, since Bravo can't get any heavy off them, and Bravo has little to gain by pushing, except an uphill battle to simply take heavy out of the hands of Alpha. And even when Bravo finally kills all of Alpha's players, removing heavy from the hands of that team entirely, the odds are still even at best, or perhaps still slightly in Alpha's favor, since Alpha has probably built a lead by then, gotten their supers charged, and has nothing new to fear from Bravo.
Does losing out on the heavy drop now equate to losing the game? I fear the answer may commonly be "yes".
Also, this scenario seems to be compounded in smaller team sizes, where initial heavy goes further, and there are fewer enemy players to fight back.
I know there are many possible ways a crucible match can play out, and that was just one, but it is a scenario that seems to be rising to the fore in the early hours of this new patch, and it seems to highlight a downside of this change. If there is an upside, or a different way of seeing it, maybe you'd care to bring it to light in a comment/response below.
I do think there was a problem of too large a portion of a crucible match simply being heavy weapon fire exchanged. However, if anything, I think the appropriate change would have been to reduce, even drastically, the amount of heavy dropped in the initial drop, and possibly even in secondary kill drops.
But the current change is, in my opinion, a mistake, and a step in the wrong direction.
More thoughts in some of the replies below, thanks for reading, and feedback!
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Editado por mark445: 3/7/2015 5:22:46 PMOmg someone who finally gets it. Ever since the change me and my team have taken full advantage of this situation. At 10 mins (1 min before heavy spawn) we set up 3 on each heavy. After a good talk we decided lmgs are the way to go because no one can pick up a rocket from our death. 1 person picks up heavy and the other 2 let it sit on the floor. Since there's 3 mins between heavy drops we have an order in which we pick them up. The first guy picks it up at 9:00 2nd dude at 8:00 last guy at 7:00. We split the heavy up so we don't waste bullets on the same guy, and we're able to control B the whole time with an lmg right by us. But the biggest reason is so we can shape the map the way we want to by the time 6:00 comes and the next heavy is dropped. Also this change I belive hurts some sub classes mainly the void walker and striker. They always say "it's not a panic button". But unlike the blade dancer and golden gun we can't walk with out supers and finding 3 people in a group is becoming much harder to find because people are playing sides more than before. When I first got this game back in October I remembered people playing ring around the rose's with bases because people tried to cap them all. Those were the times you can find 3 people in a group often. But now it's over. However they still had the heavy to bomb. I usually bomb it with a nova and get 2-3 kills along with heavy. But most of time I do died right after throwing the bomb because there's usually 1 who blinks away or the guy who was running towards the heavy and gets there too late and see me as a free kill. So let's talk about opportunity cost. Stay by my heavy and get 4 rockets and keep my nova bomb to protect me, or try to get their heavy kill 3 guys lose my bomb and I die with no heavy. so now my nova bomb is being wasted half the game because I can't panic. To hell with that bullshit it takes to god dam long. I usually get 6 or 7 kills before I find 2 people in a group. But the biggest point you talked about is the clutch in heavy. Before if we were shit out of luck for heavy I would man up and nova bomb one of those guys. Reload the truth and we're out baby. TRUTH BABY. But now I gotta sit there with a sniper and take them out or run in and died over and over. gosh these choices are great thank you bungie. I know bungie wanted to lower the heavy time and they did. But with this change comes an opportunity for a complete monopoly over heavy and the game. If they wanted to lower heavy time why not make it spawn less. If they cut it down to 2 heavy spawns instead of 3 it would achieve what they were trying to do while keeping a very possible come back in times when all the heavy falls In the enemies hands. Btw love the article thank god someone wrote it and I fully support what you have to say. I wouldn't mind talking about destiny related topics with someone like you. Also 1 more change that would be helpful is once you die all heavy that was on the floor disappears. Because players could kill someone with heavy and leave the brick on the ground so incase they die they'll still have some left. This is what made heavy last so long. This is why 2 mins after heavy dropped someone would whip out a lmg with a full brick and go ham. if you die all the heavy that was available to you should die to.
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3 Respuestasthe pleasures of killing some one with Heavy ammo is so he doesnt kill any of your teamates with it.. thats a reward in its self.. many times have i picked up heavy.. and Snipped Truth rocket at the other heavy and boom i got 8 rockets from the whole team.. that's alot of kills right there so OP IMO.. or getting my MG18 with Field Scout.. habving 300 rounds is so OP lol im glad its out.. even tho i loved it its not right
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4 RespuestasEditado por Elmstreetxo: 3/2/2015 4:04:10 PMShooting a rocket at someone takes skill? I feel like taking the snowball aspect out of the game is a good idea. If they took heavy out completely I would be happy
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1 Respuesta[quote]Does losing out on the heavy drop now equate to losing the game? I fear the answer may commonly be "yes".[/quote]I think Bungie intended to stimulate the fighting over heavy drops. In a way, getting the ammo is now of even higher priority. The problem still is though: people don't fight over heavy ammo. Most of my teammates still run off in another direction even though the heavy drop was announced 10 seconds ago and it spawned right next to them.
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1 RespuestaOn the plus side, now you can jack the other team's heavy ammo and then as four guys gun you down you laugh and say "shoot me all you want, you're not getting any of this heavy back."
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Well If I kill everyone with my heavy and they all have heavy and Then I pick up their heavy and I don't die for the rest of the match with my thunderlord.
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2 RespuestasIf everyone spawned with unlimited heavy pvp might actually be fun!
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5 RespuestasIf Team Bravo is getting killed almost unitedly by Team Alpha after picking up heavy, or before, then they are probably the worse team to begin with. There should never be a mechanic that allows the worse team to shift the odds in their favor without playing smart, in a game where gunplay should be the main mechanic of PvP. Supers kind of break this mold, and I like where supers sit in terms of the ability to really change the course of a game, because you still have to use them intelligently to turn a game around. Likewise, their should never be a mechanic that allows the better team to simply farm kills instead of working for them (assuming the worse team overall isn't THAT much worse than them). The heavy change fixed both of those. Now the worse team has to add heavy control into their strategy. If that team treats heavy as some sort of bonus that is unnecessary, chances are they will lose because heavy control IS part of the strategy. And if they don't want to try to control heavy, and instead have 3 guys on heavy while the other three are wandering aimlessly looking for kills, then yes they deserve not to have a mechanic that will allow a single rocket user to continue to fire and fire and fire and fire and effortlessly bring their team back to even with a team that has clearly proven themselves better to that point. On the flip side, the better team can no longer grab their own heavy and bait the other team by letting them grab heavy and then killing them all and grabbing heavy off their corpses just so they can continue their effortless kill streaks. In short, there are definitely pros and cons to the change. The biggest is that the raw amount of potential heavy on one team in any given scenario is lower than it was before. Which is a good thing.
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1 RespuestaI know this isn't the best situation but w.e What if when heavy ammo came in, you did not have to go get it and it was just put onto you. If you have rockets,3 rockets. And if Heavy Machine Gun,50 rounds or so. So everyone got heavy and no solo loser can jack it because he sucks and has no skill. Then when you died with heavy you drop 1 rocket or 20-30 rounds of ammo.. not to bad...
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1 RespuestaYep I am glad it's gone because too many damn people would sit and camp the heavy ammo like pussies so people don;t deserve any rewards if they kill a person trying to get at least one rocket or like 30 bullets in there lmg if people quit camping the damn heavy ammo this would not have been removed from crucible in this patch.
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I think they shouldn't have removed that feature I thought the risk/reward for heavy ammo was good
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1 RespuestaI like it. Nothing like being spawned on the other side of the map with the other team and rushing over to heavy ammo and grabbing it before their team can. I'll sacrifice myself just to pick up heavy if it means the other team won't get it.
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With the new changes Bungie should just take heavy out of every mode other than the vehicle modes.
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Well thanks for this new update,even an super idiot player dare to use machine gun.Why? Cause heavy ammo won't dropped when they get killed. Instead try to kill enemies before they can get heavy ammo,try load the ammo. Getting kill is totally fine,cause AMMO WON'T DROPPED!
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1 RespuestaThat is only in the inferno game mode, everything else stays the same
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11 RespuestasIdk what your complaining about. Taking the heavy ammo on enemy team side before they start going to it while your team gets theirs is a perfect way to put the odds in your favor. Or in words you can understand. Git gud
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1 RespuestaThey should have made these rules in the new inferno playlists only why they decide to make these major changes months into the game I'll never know
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2 RespuestasIf a team gets both heavies now they will win pretty much. I don't think it was a good move.
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The fact is that the risk for picking up Heavy has been eliminated completely. I completely agree that this actually makes it one-sided.
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Didn't read the post at all. But I love heavy ammo
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3 RespuestasI like it a lot. But players need to remember to wait for their teammates to pick up ammo. Nothing worse then one teammate picking up ammo to have them die right away and lose all the ammo
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3 Respuestasthis is why
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overall I like the change. With ammo drop perks and a good heavfy machine gun, you could get on silly long sprees with heavy, longer than Bungie intended I'm sure. I have a friend who coudl pretty consistenlty use heavy from one drop to the next with thunderlord. All he had to due is kill 1 or 2 guys with heavy and he was never going to run out. Shit with truth I would often run at the other guys with heavy. I knew the worst I would do is tie and fairly often I would get 6-8 rockets out of a single heavy pack. Start with 4, kill 2 or 3 of their guns who each drops 1-2 rockets each... As it is now since supers combat heavies effectively and once the ammo is gone, it's gone, heavies only last a few minutes and by the time they come around again, it's a good bet NOBODY has ammo left. It's more in line with what I think heavy drops should be. It does take away from the risk/ reward of killing heavy guys, but it's the lesser of 2 evils here I think.
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2 RespuestasEditado por An Actual Noob: 3/1/2015 1:24:04 PMpost 1.1.1 my experience would be that it doesnt really matter as much when you search alone, you can almost feel the loss thats coming anyway, that being said either an idiot random grabs heavy on their own and rushes the enemy because he thinks hes jesus or something and dies within 10 seconds, pre 1.1.1 he wouldve given the enemy our heavy but now he doesnt, main way to block their heavy use is a super like golden gun or nova bomb on the enemy heavy, suprise them when they decide make their way to our heavy. what i do is save my own heavy when they grab it, leave it at the pick up and rush the enemy heavy with a super and clear them as best i can, then when all their heavy is gone i grab mine and start a potential huge spree. anyone knows that you should focus down enemy heavy, if you dont you'll be at a big disadvantage, there is no need for the risk reward factor when it can decide the end of the match, sure you wont get their heavy when they die but you cannot think that that is the only reason why you would even engage their heavy, heavy mows down people very fast, a lot of kills and kills is the way games end. take them out as fast as you can. heavy isnt the problem tho, they got that figured out nicely now, the main problem really is special ammo, theres just too much of it allowing players to run special weapons to victory without even touching their primary, special has to be lost on death like heavy, a single crate should only give a clip at most and there have to be less frequent special spawns and less places where special can spawn
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1 RespuestaI think patch is great. Just have someone camp their heavy, take it, and if they die, oh well. At least enemy wont have heavy.