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Editado por hate n payne:
5/18/2022 3:21:11 PM
28
The lack of space on the maps is killing the vibe and it is honestly forcing loadouts most players do not want to play with.
The only ones enjoying this system are the ones who dont want the game to change because they are thriving in it due to months and years of practice.
This is why when Hand Cannons range was reduced, the game felt balanced for once because they were not operating outside of their archetypal design.
Now fast forward to now, 120s dont even feel good because they lack reload speed aligned with best option 140 Hand Cannons reaching ranges that are designed for 120s.
You couple that with how flinch favors burst or high damage versus constant damage over time and you got yourself a failure of balance.
This is why Pulse Rifles have remained decent for pretty much the entire life cycle of D2 while ARs despite being basically the same orientation of weapons but with a constant ROF application fall short.
Pulse Rifles are the complete all in one weapons because they have the range to compete against most archetypes in game and the versatility that other weapon should have or dominate with.
The balance overall is all messed up because Bungie put too much emphasis in addressing working as intended concepts versus non working as intended.
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120s are great what are you talking about? Ranges are fine on both main HCs. Next season they will be even more fine.
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Editado por hate n payne: 5/17/2022 9:06:17 PMI didnt say they were bad, I said they lack in the reload department. Reload overall should be buffed for all weapons at least by 10-15%. When you say 120s, are you talking about the best options which is basically all of them? There isnt that many 120s so you know.
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120s punish you for misplacing shots, rewarding you with very high damage and range. They need zero tuning.
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Editado por hate n payne: 5/18/2022 1:03:17 AMThis reload change isnt just a 120 issue. Reload overall is capped for no reason. I can care less what you feel or think. Also newsflash, Hand Cannons arent even hard to use. Why do you players who swear by them act like they are the hardest weapons to master? They are literally one of the easiest primaries in the game. If Hand Cannons was so difficult to master, there would not have been a need for Bungie to increase the range again. The Hand Cannons in this game are treated like Scout Rifles with more ez of use. As long as you got enough practice and understand how to pace your shots plus the peeking in and out of cover, it is nothing special.
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Igneous Hammer is still amazing. 120s aren't bad at all.
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Editado por hate n payne: 5/17/2022 8:22:46 PM120s are hit and miss. They were much better as 110s. Using Iggy Hammer as an example is one of those best option mentality which doesn’t contribute to the entire family of Aggressive Hand Cannons. Same can be said when players are using the best option analogy for other archetypes of weapons to determine if the weapon family is good or bad.
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You can do fine with Bottom Dollar and Steady Hand. Bottom Dollar has an insane amount of perks and you can target farm it now. I just used Igneous as an example because of how incredible it is. 120s are fine.
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Not in my eyes 120s are fine. A reload buff would make them fine in my eyes. A reload buff overall would make alot of weapons better intrinsically. I am specifically picky about certain components in the game. Mentally I do not see things in the same complex.
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Reload mods/ophidians make them reload very quickly. Or go after a reload perk. 120s are nuts, especially on some larger maps.
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That limits your build diversity and I do not play like that. Reloading should not be ever be an issue in any shooter. Whatever changes they did back in the day to nerf reloading was a dumb decision.
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Editado por Sohsuh: 5/17/2022 8:52:24 PMReloading is what prevents some weapons from being grossly overpowered, like 120s. You want an instantly reloading 120 without having to build anything into it? Lol. That would be horribly unbalanced.
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I dont need a massive buff. Bungie recently decided to add a 10% buff to handling for snipers. The same kind of buff could be applied to all weapons.
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Mine has 86 range and 66 handling with Quickdraw. Feels like a dream.
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You talking about Iggy Hammer or Bottom Dollar??? That Handling that make a difference for sure.
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Editado por Sohsuh: 5/17/2022 9:07:16 PMIgneous. Mine has Celerity which boosts the handling by a ton. Feels amazing. You can get a Bottom Dollar with 82 range and 51 handling, with Quickdraw/Opening Shot. Would be great too.
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Editado por hate n payne: 5/17/2022 9:12:31 PMCool deal. I got the ones I need for my behavior of play. I got a bunch of True Prophecy with Drop Mag or Accurized Rounds. I got 2 Loud Lullaby ones. I got a couple of Iggy Hammers, Steady Hands and Bottom Dollars. I keep more Aggressive Hand Cannons than I do Adaptive ones. I think I lost interest in them when they were made into 120s and everybody was using them because I used to use 110s alot. Now when it comes to Hand Cannons, I use the 180s. I am an anti-META player, I like to challenge myself first before I decide to challenge against others.
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Throne war auto is really good I out gun plenty of pulses and hand cannons with it. Best auto to use during IB too
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Editado por hate n payne: 5/17/2022 7:33:20 PMYou got that Genesis and Golden Tricorn roll right. I have used that weapon in PVP. It is a monster if you can get it working.
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I have motion and tricorn But yes it is my go to pvp weapon now
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Editado por hate n payne: 5/17/2022 8:01:04 PMAnd it is Arc too. Which character you use it on mostly???
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Its really hard to make auto rifles good without it ending up like season of the gnawing hunger. It just kind of makes sense for pulse rifles and hand cannons to be consistently viable for people that like to use primaries and like gun fights. Almost anything else replacing them would be "worse." I wouldn't mind it but everybody gets whatever weapons are powerful and a good player with really powerful scout rifle or auto rifle would probably lead to more complaints than hand cannons and pulses. The abilities were still powerful this season too unless you were really attached to spamming ohk.
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Editado por hate n payne: 5/17/2022 8:45:51 PMI dont agree with the logic of having Hand Cannons and Pulse Rifles being a more sighted viability over ARs. The “600 RPM” META was the most balanced time we had in the game. It was ruined by players not being accustomed to it due to being stuck in the same Shotgun and Hand Cannon phase for too long. Players were not used to dealing with a best option version of an AR. Really think about what ARs were really putting in work and what stats and perks synergy they had. It wasnt every single AR much like it isnt every Hand Cannon nor Pulse Rifle that is doing really well. The only issue with that META which is the same issue now was the lack of space. Think about how matches are played today. There is an abundance of teamshooting and it has everything to do with the fact that lanes are too close to each other to gravitate players towards individual gunfights or flanks. When players are on much larger maps, there is more real estate for them to test the waters whether it is angles within the maps or weapons. We have been playing the same maps for 3 years and not once has maps been introduced nor changed on a much larger scale to help change the META naturally versus a change via buffs and nerfs. The changes the sandbox has given us has always been about weapons, abilities and exotics working as intended or being more viable than others versus creating new and refreshing map changes that would change the layout of the META. I mean how much did 600 RPM change from the time they were META to now. There isnt much of a change. How many changes did Hand Cannons go through??? There was a lot of changes whether it is the RPMs or the change in range. I mean you even got Aggressive HCs struggling now because some of the best option Adaptive HCs are reaching ranges close to that of them with a faster RPM. Everything is off balance due to poor decision changes centered around addressing weapons due to the best options being potent and dominant versus addressing the maps, modes and playlists collectively.
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Honestly, the Gnawing Hunger meta was terrible. Incredibly boring. There's a reason it hasn't returned.
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Editado por hate n payne: 5/17/2022 8:19:56 PMThe Hand Cannon META is way more boring to me personally. The only reason most players hated the AR META is due to the fact they nerfed the range of Hand Cannons and then it became who was actually good with Hand Cannons versus who had or has the best options which is what happening now. There were approximately 23+ Hand Cannons in the game that were either Adaptive or Lightweight based Hand Cannons and out of those, maybe 5-10 of those truly got used. There were 5-7 Adaptive Frame ARs and only 2-3 of those were truly used. Fast forward to today, what is still the most active between Adaptive ARs and Hand Cannons?? I can easily say Hand Cannons have taken that slot with no contest. The only reason I feel ARs were considered boring or more oppressive is due to the sandbox coming out of SBMM/CBMM system that were separated via the Control(SBMM) and Classic Control(CBMM) setup.
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Editado por Sohsuh: 5/17/2022 8:26:38 PMHand Cannons are far from boring. An AR feels way too much like any old FPS game. It's an AR. It's not special. Hand Cannons are dueling weapons. It's like the wild west. There is nothing, arguably, more satisfying than tapping someone 3 times in a row in the head with a big hand cannon and seeing them drop. They are also very versatile and you can pair them with most secondary weapons. They just feel good at all times. AR's on the other hand, are not satisfying. It feels like COD/BF/etc. It's just an AR. That's why a lot of people are using SMG's now, which you have left out. Multimach and Shayuras dominate. They absolutely destroy people, Hand Cannon users included, and they feel incredibly satisfying to get kills with. They burst people so quickly and they sound amazing. 540 Pulse's also destroy Hand Cannons. You get a Piece of Mind or Darkest Before with a great roll and you are going to ruin a hand cannon users day. Hand Cannons are great but they are far from the best weapon in the game. They are very good but they aren't alone at the top. AR's are just in that spot where they are irrelevant, and honestly, good. They are boring and we already had that horrible Uriels meta, and the Gnawing Hunger meta which was just awful. The changes next season are going to push 540's even further, and SMG's getting a zoom nerf but a range buff are going to keep them slaying too. Hand Cannon usage is going to fall off big time, but they will still be good.
