As a player who only ventures into the crucible for Iron Banner and for exotic bounties ( I prefer Battlefield for my PVP kicks )
I have to say I am extremely disappointed with the proposed weapon balancing incoming with the next patch.
Whilst I agree certain weapons do dominate in PVP ( I'm looking at You Suros , Last Word , Vex and Thorn ) A blanket nerf across the most popular weapon types show a lack of forethought and a certain degree of laziness on Bungies part , punishing all for the sins of the minority.
Whilst engagement ranges and enemy combatants in PVP are fairly fixed , In PVE engagement ranges change and from close up encounters to long range engagements very quickly and enemy numbers from one or two to multiple ( example Crota fight on CE raid ) and with no quick switch to change up weapons without engaging a menu ( leaving yourself vulnerable to attack ) one weapon type to fit a specific role is simple not viable - one minute you may be fighting a bunch of thralls up close the next wearing down crotas shield with a mixture of rockets and primaries from afar.
Assault rifles with the exception of one or two are useless across the board in most engagement ranges in PVE because most are high rate of fire low and very low impact and are certainly not the close up "chainsaws" You seem to think they are.
They did not need a nerf if anything most require a buff to be viable in both game types , and even if any nerf was warranted at any point they have already had it on two occasions in previous patches.
Handcannons were a viable alternative with the impact , range and accuracy to one shot lower tier enemies and deal reasonable damage to bullet sponge majors , ultras and bosses , so why the nerf ?
Nerfing range , accuracy and damage drop off on hand cannons is simply ridiculous , they are not the most used weapon in PVP or in PVE of the primary weapon types and as you said they " work as advertised" so why touch them at all , and yes I am a hand cannon user but only because these are the only weapon type that doesn't make me feel vulnerable in ever changing , dynamic PVE battles.
Nerfing hand cannon accuracy when firing multiple shots and telling me I need to " pace my shots" is illogical and is obviously a direct response to Thorn and hawk moon "snipers" in the crucible with no thought or regard for Your PVE player base who will inevitably suffer from these changes.
Sure this is fine against enemies with critical points but what about VOG hard when I need to drop a Minotaur or Pretorian quickly whilst he's running and / or teleporting towards me , switch to My heavy ? I can't as ammo is too expensive and disappears at cutscenes - use my shotgun ? great if I want an enemy to get close enough to see the whites of my eyes ..
Nerfing my ability to rapidly land accurate shots at anything more than medium range is just stupid.
I understand and fully sympathise with PVP players who want to see certain weapons "reigned in" but with every patch that includes blanket weapon changes PVE players seem to suffer.
I have played a lot of Destiny both on Xbox One and Playstation 4 , and it seems that whilst solely catering to the PVP crowd - The PVE game is consistently getting more difficult with the goalposts moving on a regular basis - Nobody wants to find that the missions that were easy yesterday are harder today simply because our tools are less effective.
The proposed buff to the pulse rifles is of course welcome and much needed , and I look forward to using My Bad Juju with Obsidian Mind to greater effect but in response to Your question and answer in Your update preview ..
[b]"Why did you “nerf” my favorite weapon? Why not make the other ones better and leave mine alone?"
Good question! Here’s why: We pay close attention to kill times in all game modes against all combatant types. If we brought up all the other weapons to account for lethality spikes that occur in specific situations, then our TTK (time to kill) would get faster with every patch. It is important to us to keep TTK values such that your arsenal feels lethal, but also both allows for some drama while you fight, and creates opportunities for counter-play when you’re being attacked.[/b]
This doesn't make sense , If the TTK on a pulse rifle is currently lower than other weapons because the base damage requires a buff - then buff it so its TTK comes into line with other weapons , there is absolutely no requirement to alter stats on other weapon types ( I'm talking blanket weapon categories not individual offenders ) -
It is insulting that You would even provide the above as an answer to Your player base - We are not all sheep that lap up everything You decide to bless us with , This answer is complete BS and anyone with half a brain can see this.
I have been a loyal Destiny player since day one across two consoles and have enjoyed my time with the game , but after taking the time to play The battlefield Hardline Beta, Evolve and Super Smash brothers on the Wii U I've realised that the day to day grind is just not satisfying anymore or if it ever even was.
I still enjoy iron banner and I enjoy the raids but doing the same missions and bounties day in and day out is just tedious now - I feel that myself and my friends are making our own fun and could be doing that in many of the other games out now or coming soon - Most of my friends have moved on to Dragon age or GTA V, And are going to be playing evolve and the Order in the next few weeks , I can't imagine myself sticking around to do the same missions on my own with less effective Guns.
This post is not a whine or a whinge but just an open statement on my opinion of why the direction You are taking Destiny may not be the right way to grow Your product.
[b]Knee jerk patches[/b] and blanket nerfs to "balance" weapons based primarily from the vocal minority of people crying that a particular weapon is overpowered because they were killed by it in crucible.
[b]The exotic resets[/b] ,
[b]The RNG element[/b] ,
[b]Heavy ammo glitches[/b] ,
[b]Being able to buy Vanguard gear that is technically better than the raid gear we worked hard for in VOG [/b],
[b]The buggy raids[/b] (The Crota fight Hard mode took us less than 10 minutes the other night , On our second play through it took us three hours to beat him with our alts - same level same players same classes - orgres not spawning , sword de spawning , Crota not going down after 10 maxed out rockets )
All these points and many more I could mention should be taking priority over weapon tuning and blanket nerfs but Bungie chooses to pander to The PVP crowd once again , making the already buggy mess that is PVE worse for what I assume is the vast majority of Your player base and the daily grind even harder to bear by making the tools at our disposal less effective.
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It never made sense to me either. If pulse rifles were underpowered, why not just bring their level of damage up?
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Super bump.
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This is absolutely great. Wish Bungie would realize this...
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1 Reply
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2 RepliesWe're all playing the same game, it has two aspects to it. The changes effect us all... so? Deal.
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2 RepliesThis post description is stupidly long.
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That's how Bungie rolls. It's all about PvP and BLAM the PvE crowd. They should have made the two separate
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IMO, the correct way for Bungie to do this would be to put the weapon stats back to how they were at launch and to never buff/nerf them again. The reason for this is that in PvE(which is my play preference), your weapon load outs will vary based on what you are doing (patrol, story mission, strike, raid) and some players put some thought into what they use and the same should go for PvP. The weapons that dominate PvP, according to these forums, should be more easily obtainable to allow for "balancing." Since the level advantages are disabled in PvP, why can't this be done for the weapons as well?
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Well I hate to say this but I believe Bungie is one of "those " companies now. They are strictly out for money which is a common factor with all companies that get took over by Activision. Quite frankly they don't give a dang because there have been WAY toooo many posts in these forums that made perfect sense and no one on their side ever said a thing back to us. They are going to throw some PvE out there and know it's F'd up so they are laying all their cards on players running the crucible till Wolves drops. They should have separated the game types from the beginning. Bungie is not a rookie it kills me to see them making rookie mistakes. Point blank, they won't change crap and will continue with their "high and mighty" answers back to us (which has happened maybe 2 or 3 times tops?) There a company and out to make money period, but sometimes some companies do still care and will go out of their way to make their game better.
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This is seriously bs. If weapons are not being used improves those don't go nerfing all the others because you want to play favorites with weapons. This is by far the most retarded thing I have ever seen. This will only make people not want to play Destiny anymore. I mean hell after this I don't want to play any more. They keeping feeding us bs after bs and I think we all have had enough. I'm willing to bet that once evolve drops their player base is going to plummet because lets be honest we only play this game because it is a good time waster. It gives us more to do than other games released but the constant shoveling of crap in our faces has gone on for too long. I for one am definitely going to peace out from this game despite already having got the stupid dlc bundle. Nothing they do now will be anything new and it will always be the same lackluster crap as always. After what six years or more of development you think they would have realized the dos and don'ts by watching other companies and how they have fallen on their faces but clearly not.
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1 ReplyGotta agree. I love Destiny but she's been unfaithful one too many times now. Destiny is becoming less and less "our" game. Everything done seems to be for the longevity of the game and not for the good of it. How many times have they adjusted Fusion & Auto Rifles now ? In my opinion, They're trying everything they can to stretch out The Dark Below until House of Wolves is released. Here's some advice Bungie, sack your QA dept. and start testing your products before release I'm pretty sure the Destiny community is sick and tired of being your lab rats.
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I'm super pissed off too. Catering to the PVP crybabies. Ruining PVE. This game was sold as an epic PVE experience, but it's clear they only care about crucible. We've had ONE special event for PVE. -blam!-ing one. Every time someone cries about getting killed in PVP. NERF TIME. This is the third or fourth auto rifle nerf already. BS already.
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2 RepliesGreat post OP! I really couldn't have said it better, it's just a shame that they won't listen and they probably don't care. I had faith in Bungie until they posted this garbage and now I can see that they just don't care. PvE is just getting harder and harder and eventually we will all just have sling shots with stones for weapons because everything will eventually suck. I'm really regretting buying the DLC.
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1 ReplyExcellent points. I've been commenting multiple times on every thread I see about this, because I want bungie to read this stuff and get some realistic reactions... I bet they don't check these forums out often though.
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Give this man a cookie. And a job at bungie.
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Bungie missed the chance to ONLY change Pulse Rifles by certainly making them a little bit more powerful (whilst leaving everything else alone) but also making them particularly effective against the Vex, seeing as they are energy weapons! If they made them first choice against the "murderous robots" then people wouldn't have been leaving them in the vault all of the time!
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I would like to say tho, that I am an avid PVP player since the game came out. I know PVPERS complain a lot by I for one do not at all want the changes they made. I honestly would prefer a buff to all these weapons.
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bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump
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1 ReplyI'm in agreement my friend. Catering to the pvp side of things has brought so much of the enjoyment down in PVE and unnecessarily so. I understand the issues of weapon balancing in pvp, but please, the ongoing enjoyment of the game, buff the weapons back to where they were initially or even higher. Bring back excitement of being a guardian.
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1 ReplyCompletely agreed. Pulse Rifles getting a buff (even if it was just 9.5%) was needed, they sucked before 1.1.1. But there was no need for the nerf to AR's and HC's. Just buffing the Pulse Rifles would have had people using them more and stepping away from only using AR's and HC's. But now people are vaulting their Auto Rifles and Hand Cannons. When Bungie runs their next slate of spreadsheets, they're going to notice a massive spike in Pulse Rifle and Scout Rifle use, which will be mirrored by a drastic drop in Auto Rifle and Hand Cannon use. The numbers will be unbalanced yet again, but swinging to the other extreme this time. Then they'll nerf and buff again, to the continuing frustration of their rapidly dwindling player base. Bungie, rather than focusing on spreadsheets, listen to us. DeeJ is doing a shit-tier job of informing you of what we experience in the game, and our suggestions are based off of those experiences. Blanket nerfs/buffs are not good in a game like Destiny, especially when you're only taking into consideration the views of the smallest segment of your player base and those thrice-damned spreadsheets. We know you can make PvE and PvP nerfs/buffs separately, you've proven that with those (still worthless in PvE) shotguns. If the PvP community is having very serious issues with weapons (of which, no one was bitching about Auto Rifles...), but the weapons are performing as intended on the PvE side, then make the goddamned adjustments only on the PvP side! One last thing. The last time you did a weapon balancing, Bungie; you told us that Hand Cannons were fixed after the adjustment, and that they are performing as they were intended. We the players have no ability in any manner to affect how the weapons perform or to change the numerical values in the game code. So, how is it that now the Hand Cannons are not performing as intended? Specifically, they are now performing so badly overpowered that you had to nerf them as a class of weapon rather than a few individual weapons [i]in[/i] that weapon class? Your reasoning for the nerf of Hand Cannons is complete, thinly-veiled bullshit. You looked at your spreadsheets, saw how many people had fallen in love with their Hand Cannons, and even though they were performing "as they were described to", all of the sudden they need a nerf? No, this was just a measure to get people using Pulse Rifles so that you wouldn't have to admit (in your own hubris) that your Pulse Rifles were flawed. Hand cannons were working fine, and needed no further adjustments after the previous weapon balancing patch. The nerf included in the 1.1.1 rebalance now makes the Hand Cannons under-perform the description you have given to them. Same goes with the Auto Rifles. All that needed to happen was to have a buff applied to Pulse Rifles and people would have started using them more, and your omni-precious spreadsheets would have shown the numbers balancing out on both sides of the game. Now you'll have another imbalance as I mentioned at the top of my post here. I swear, those spreadsheets are more important you you assholes than the feedback of the people actually playing your game...
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Edited by FREEDUMBBBBBBBB: 2/26/2015 3:32:59 PMPretty much all of my ARs were vaulted before this patch because they all already sucked. Cheers to 2.5% more suck-age. I agree though, they didn't haven't to make so many changes at once. They could have have addressed the most obvious problems and buffed pulse rifles in PVP and PVE and shotguns in PVE while reducing starting ammo for secondaries in crucible and see how that changed the weapon balance. If that didn't change anything after a month, push the rest of the tweaks to see if that does the trick.
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1 ReplyYou sir are a genius well spoke on every point well done.
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1 ReplyEdited by Judge_Rhymehold: 2/26/2015 12:57:55 PMTook down a sword of crota on the fist of crota mission in two shotgun blasts. That was kinda nice! If it had a little more ammo, possibly a slight range increase when aiming and they could almost be usable in PVE. And bad juju finally feels exotic!