WARNING: HERE COMES SCIENCE
There are 25 exotic weapons in the game. Fate of All Fools, Vex, and Necrochasm are obtained through the raid or unavailable. This leaves 22.
5 guns can only be obtained through bounties, so that leaves 17.
3 guns are PS Exclusive and Xur can't sell them ATM, so that leaves 14.
This means that, assuming Xur is RNG, each weapon has A 7.14% probability of being sold each week.
With each gun having a 0.071 chance of being sold, we have to calculate the probability of the same gun being sold more than once consecutively.
The most times that this has happened was 2 weeks in a row. The compound probability of this happening is of 0.504% in layman terms, this means that it should happen once approximately every 4 years. Low probability but still plausible RNG.
NOW... When we take into account ARMOR things get a bit trickier.
There are 26 pieces of exotic armor ALL of which can be sold by Xur. This means that each individual piece of armor has 3.84% probability of being sold by Xur.
With each piece of armor having a 0.038 chance of being sold, what is the probability of the same piece of armor being sold in consecutive weeks? Well, the most that this has happened was 4 times. The compound probability of this happening is of 0.000208%
This means that if Xur was RNG, this should happen once approximately... Every 10,000 years.
Now, I will save the boring explanation and just jump to conclusion. Since Xur has sold the exact same inventory with same stats on armor more than once, the probability is too small to put on this article, but it should happen once ever 21,477,719,412 years (if you consider that the Big Bang is theorized to have happened 13.1 Billion years ago, that's longer than the universe has existed... By 1.6 times!
I'm not giving an opinion, I just did the basic math. You make up your own mind.
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#Destiny
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It was once random until there was a bug that made Xur give out Voidfang Vestments for a billion weeks in a row. Now it's randomly generated and then tweaked if necessary (Too many weeks of same weapon/armor being sold) Aaaaaaand in the end who cares?
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The problem here is people think probability outweighs random. It does not.
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5 RepliesEdited by Osiris: 2/3/2015 4:20:56 PMSo i came in here adimently objecting to the original Posters claims, mainly because i do not agree with the methods he calculated the armor probabilities (and still do not). however, I then took my own probabilites of how to calculate armor probabilities. (which is much higher, as I divided them by class, and each class has its own armor sold each week. I then extended this, and created a data set where each piece of armor was given an ID number: [u][b]Warlock[/b][/u] 1-Apotheosis veil 2-light beyond nemosis 3-skull of dire ahamkara 4-sunbreakers 5-heart of praxic fire 6-voidfang vestments [u][b]Titan[/b][/u] 1-insurmountable skullfort 2-helm of inmost light 3-helm of saint-14 4-no backup plans 5-crest of alpha lupi 6-armametarian [u][b]Hunter[/b][/u] 1-Ach. Symbiote 2-knucklehead radar 3-mask of the third man 4-young ahamkara spine 5-crest of alpha lupi 6-lucky raspberry Then I made a data set for the first 13 weeks, which was when the DLC released more options week-----------------warlock---------------------------titan-----------------------------hunter 1------------------------------4----------------------------------4-----------------------------------3 2------------------------------4----------------------------------2-----------------------------------6 3------------------------------1----------------------------------5-----------------------------------2 4------------------------------4----------------------------------3-----------------------------------1 5------------------------------6----------------------------------2-----------------------------------6 6------------------------------2----------------------------------6-----------------------------------1 7------------------------------6----------------------------------6-----------------------------------5 8------------------------------6----------------------------------6-----------------------------------6 9------------------------------4----------------------------------5-----------------------------------3 10----------------------------6----------------------------------6-----------------------------------5 11----------------------------6----------------------------------4-----------------------------------4 12----------------------------6----------------------------------6-----------------------------------5 13----------------------------2----------------------------------2-----------------------------------4 I then created similar datasets for Post-DLC xur, and likewise for weapons. I then took this data and submitted it to a battery of the following tests for randomness: Frequency Test: Monobit Frequency Test: Block Runs Test Test for the Longest Runs of Ones in a Block Binary Matrix Rank Test Discrete Fourier Transform (Spectral Test) Non-Overlapping Template Matching Test Overlapping Template Matching Test Maurer's Universal Statistical Test Linear Complexity Test Serial Test Approximate Entropy Test Cumulative Sums Test Random Excursions Test Random Excursions Variant Test the results are quite extensive, and are in the form of Stata Output. If anyone would like to see the output, I can send you the Stata file upon request. But the overall conclusion was that the armor failed the majority of the test (when the standard error is ignored) wheras, the weapons seem to follow a pattern that is still indicitive of randomness. From all of the armor sets, the hunters failed the fewest amount of tests. Hoewver, with this in mind, the sample sizes are far to small, so the standard error on the tests were so large that no statistically conclusive evidence can be drawn. however, the current data does give a reason to at least raise suspicion. So I apologize to the OP for my original attack, it seems that you do have something with your claims (though i still disagree with your probability calculations for armor). and thank you for making a topic that provoked me to conduct my study, I love data analysis, and i had a blast testing this. Edit: and right after i did this, I watched the video where Deej admited that Xur isn't random... sooooo.... yeah
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4 Repliespretty sure deej confirmed he wasn't RNG but i guess its ok.
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Not RNG. DeeJ confirmed. Plus if you look at what he's sold already you can tell it's not RNG without calculating all the stats...
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1 Replyexcept the Deej confirmed that xur is rng
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1 ReplyNo, he isn't. They said,he isn't.
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As my Calculus teacher said, "anything with an algorithm is never truly random".
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Lol he is chosen, This from a stream that happened recently http://youtu.be/YLxHKQA-Eew
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2 RepliesEdited by Jeremy Winston: 2/2/2015 8:11:11 PMI have a few issues with the math here. Assuming his distribution is correct (and appears so to me)... The chance of a a specific weapon being sold during any given week is as he said... 7.14%. The chance of ANY weapon being offered is 100%. I know that sounds stupid to point out, but it's important for part 2. The chance of the a specific weapon being sold two week in a row is about 0.51%, or once every 200 tries (e.g. just under four years). BUT, the chance of having a case where some weapon was sold two times in a row (that is, where it doesn't matter what weapon it is, but that whatever weapon sold last week is sold this week) is.... 7.14%. This isn't all that improbable, and should happen about 1/14 weeks in the long run. You can do the similar check for armor. The chance of some armor being sold for multiple weeks in a row would be (I haven't counted armors, but using the OP's 26 count...): Same unspecified piece of armor two weeks in a row -- 3.85% (1/26 weeks) Same unspecified piece of armor three weeks in a row -- 0.148% (1/676 weeks, or 13 years) Same unspecified piece of armor four weeks in a row -- 0,0043% (1/23323 weeks, or 448 years) So, yeah.. it's unlikely to happen BEFORE the fact. But, as people have noted.. once it happens on the second week, the chance of an armor repeating for a third week is only 3.85%. If it does happen, then it's 3.85% to happen for a fourth week.
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Regarding the armor just one thing. 26 pieces of armor yes. But you need to divide it between the 3 classes as it always (except the sunbreakergate incident) sells one of each class. This changes your math a lot. Also they can artificially increase the probability of certain items being sold by altering the loot table. Imagine the loot table contains 100 exotic weapons. Some repeated ofc. In those only one is let's say plan c. That weapon can still be sold and picked. But it's probability is much lower than with others that may be repeated. But it's still rng. Just with manipulated probabilities. And that's what I believe they are doing. Despite it being random, I feel there are things that have a higher probability of being sold than others. That's their control over it.
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Your math is off. You have to consider the probability of a weapon being sold at [i]least[/i] two times in a row. Further, I doubt the weapons and armor all have equal probabilities of being sold. We need to see how they're weighted.
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1 ReplyWithout knowing things about statistics, to see xur sellings only things from the dlc twice (three?) times is just a business strategy to make people buy the extension (if some haven't bought it yet) So either way : - they manually chose the stuff => it's not random - there are weight on exotics to make some more easy to get even if the choice is random. Gjallahorn weight 1, dragons breath weight 99. Xur has 99/100 to pick dragon's breath => it's still "random"
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Right out of the gate your assuming all weapons and armor have the same percentage chance to show up which -blam!-s the rest of your math. Post invalid
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Your statement about armour is wrong. You're assuming that is only selling one armour piece a week, which is incorrect.
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70 Repliesthis argument is so flawed. let me go into a few reasons why First of all, let me hit on the armor point you mentioned. Your calculations have suggested that 1 piece of armor is sold each week, but this is not the case. 3 pieces of armor all sold each week, and they are divided into class types. second, ou have assumed that RNG means all outcomes are evenly weighted, which has never been claimed, and may or may not be the case. third, you realize, no matter what probabilities you calculate (even if your calculations were not seriously off base), every possible permutation should yield the same probability (unless weighted). so if we assume unwieghted items. No matter what outcome we recieve, any other possible outcome would have the EXACT SAME probability of occuring... I dont care if he sold a gjallarhorn ever single week so far, that would have the exact same chance of happening as what we have experienced. the odds of every possible outcome are small, yet identical. so do not go throwing around numbers acting like you know all about statistics, when you obviously do not have a proper education on the nature of probabilities.
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I'm pretty sure it's a template rng system. Where there are different possible inventory templates, each of which have assigned probabilities.
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He is rng. Bungee confirmed it.
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2 Replies.071 percent chance of being sold? Something went [i]very[/i] wrong with you math about right here
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[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/95207257/0/0]Xur's Loot Table Concept PROVEN??? (Legitimate)[/url]
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1 ReplyFlawed. Consecutive doesn't stack. The % stays the same each week. If it's 50/50, it stays 50/50 throughout. One not dropping doesn't increase the chance the next week.
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2 RepliesI thought ps had 2 exclusives.
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Edited by Artesians: 2/3/2015 1:45:50 AMDoesn't take into account of a weighted RNG system.
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Sunbreakers, 5 times in 6 weeks iirc, that's freaking impossibly rare. Even if they only had let's say 4 possible items to pick from, having the same item come up over and over is crazy. Or how about when they sold plan c a second time in a row and actually said they didn't want people wasting coins before update. I think if anything that due is rng ans bungie has the option to override the rng choice. Otherwise the date manipulation stock should hold true
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I think bungie picks the weapons that go Into the RNG pool.