because people still cant get it through their heads that raid and exotic gear are not earned THEY ARE RANDOM DROPS I mean really that's why every-time Xur sells something good, the forums blowup with threads about banning xur from the tower because their suros they got from a tiger strike was sold even though the people who bought it had to run three weekly heroics for it

Watch that short video. Did those players [b]cheat[/b]? Or [b]cheese[/b]? Cause that's the exact same thing players did to PHOGOTH, the VOG Templar, and other critters like Urzok. Off a ledge. Wasn't a cheese nor cheating. They played the game. I know the difference between cheesing and cheating. Tons of people don't. Behind the comments are one of two types, and in this community it is the most people who appear on here that can't differentiate between the two things. Cheesing- Using environment as cover, distance to your advantage, and things Bungie provided as tools to defeat an enemy (all of which you still CAN take damage, die, and register to the enemy regardless of Bungie being inept by putting a leash on AI area allowance). Cheating- Interfering with the games Netcode intentionally, taking advantage of unintentional programming flaws, pulling the plug, dashboarding with intent to interfere with programmed events, and bypassing safeguards intended to disallow said cheats. Example- "VOG 1.0", Bungie programmed enemy AI to pull away from damage triggers. The Templar AND PHOGOTH in his strike also btw, would retreat mindlessly off a ledge as a result of the programmed responses Bungie put in the game. Nobody pulled plugs, dashboarded, interfered with the code. Bungie programmed them to retreat, and players made them. The community that refers to this as cheesing is correct. It was an easier way to defeat the Templar and Phogoth. It's not cheating. The parameters within the game allowed a strategy using the environment to beat them. If community was mad at players who did it, then too bad. Example- Blatantly locking up Netcode and programming by dashboarding is cheating. It is a disruption of the programming itself. It is not environmental, distance, cover based shooting, having enemies back away from damage etc. When it interferes with the programming and you're doing it intentionally... you can brag about your rewards all you want behind the guise of earning it. You cheated. Note: If Bungie didn't become so inept and incompetent with their QA, and Luke Smith didn't have his tantrum and speed patch the VOG the community wouldn't have had a broken VOG for a month after their "fixes" that BROKE it. So I couldn't really care if people cheat or cheese but seriously learn the difference. Bungie is mad people find ways to play (cheese) using environment and cover they put in as "scenery". Like the Archon Priest Strike had a platform, they didn't wall it off because they never had it cross their mind that's cover. You could get killed underneath it, fall out from under it down a cliff... but because players used their scenery as cover in this [i]"huge open world shooter"[/i] they sectioned it off. Community are mad players find ways to cheat. Rightfully so. And barely anybody knows the real difference between "Cheesing" and "Cheating". "Cheesing" is the Destiny community's new word for "camping" in PVE. You camp in a beneficial cover spot that you can still die behind or in and the opinion of another player deems it unfit. Well then Bungie shouldn't provide cover then. What did you expect when you mob a player with invisible AI with 300% melee attack damage that we'd not avoid that when you remove half our ammo and start us at the beginning of 20 minutes or an hour of work ? You punish a players death by stripping ammo, time spent, and remove content from non-DLC buyers and you want players to not avoid being mauled in an FPS? This isn't "WoW". Despite who you hired that is mucking up your Reputation that told you different. This is an FPS open world game you are section ing off one piece at a time while being deaf to community. Shame. Tons of things about this game are great. And your biggest asset you never speak with. You just speak AT your community. Not "with" them. Trion Worlds Devs patronized community and Defiance went down the toilet. Dice became EA's whipped dog and battlefield has only TWO PERCENT of it original numbers actually [i]playing[/i] it. Respawns Steve Fakuda outright stated "no" to ANY new "user oriented content" and Titanfall went *flush*. And you at Bungie wanna go back to your table, have a meeting, and thumb your noses at the loyal fanbase screaming at you what the game could benefit from? Well jeez, enjoy where Battlefield, Defiance, and Titanfall went then. Cause you're no different if you follow in their footsteps. Yer pulling EA's "remove content" maneuvers. Blech. Look at yer demographic revenue declining. As long as Bungie removes content from the core game people bought as they scurry behind the EULA I couldn't care less what people do. Cause I play with friends (regardless of what you remove), have fun, and there's nothing any of us can do to get Bungie to do their job. So all of this cheese and cheat crap, know the difference. Especially YOU Bungie. Now even YOU use the word "cheese" as if players using the environment you gave us was wrong. If it is, wtf you put it there for? [spoiler]Don't bother. Ya can hate all ya want but that's the difference.[/spoiler]

If your entire drive in life is to prove that you are legitimately better than someone else in a video game, you have -blam!-ed up priorities

It's called strategy. I myself do not care. If my group wants to cheese, I don't care. I suggest some of you who are more or less berating people who find another another way to do things to take a step back and re - evaluate your life.

PATCH WARS The Templar Menace PATCH WARS Attack of the Cheesers PATCH WARS Revenge of the DeeJ PATCH WARS A New Cheese PATCH WARS The Bungie Strikes Back PATCH WARS Return of the Cheese

My group completes the raid every week on all 3 of our characters. The first time, we get our best character and fight our way through the raid, no cheese. After doing it legit 1 time all the way through, we get on our lower lvls and cheese. Why? Because what is the point in busting your ass, grinding til your eyes bleed, and getting -blam!-ed by RNG? There has been several times were me and my group members get only shards or energies from beating Crota. On 2 occasions I got only the ship. Just the ship. So what is the point in trying this? Some of you people that whine about this obviously are stupid. People that have grinded since day 1 of this games release, put in so much effort to complete VOG when released.. Mostly to become lvl 30. Then they release the new DLC and they just give everyone armor that gets you to 30. Some had to actually work through the raid to get this, like my group. We didn't cheese the raid til it was not relevant to try and beat it legit anymore. We got what we wanted now it's time to do it for fun and -blam!- around. You all need to get off the gaming Tit.

To the people that are ignorant ( not the OP). You DON'T EARN drops from raids. You win the lottery plain and simple. Try soloing a nightfall for 3 hours just to "earn" ascendant materials. And if you haven't been playing since midnight on September 9th 2014 I don't need to hear your ignorant ass comments anymore. Back then that shit was earned because you couldn't YouTube a video and beat it in a hour.

If you cheese you just suck plain and simple. if you cheese you should a nice * by your name so everyone can know you suck * means I suck and I'm a cheater. For all you cheesers out there you know you suck and that's enough for me.

First there's a difference between a strategy and exploiting glitches. I see cheesing as a subset of strategizing, just one that isn't what the developer may have intended. For instance hanging out in the back to choose who Atheon teleports is a strategy. Nothing about it was obviously cheating, it was just good sense and I'm honestly surprised bungie removed it. Pushing atheon off the ledge with grenades is cheesing. It still takes coordination and skill and follows the rules of the game itself. Enemies seek to evade aoe damage and will walk off cliffs to do so. This has been a mechanic since halo, no one complains when a dreg throws themselves off a cliff. Bungie simply didn't realize the effect it would have on the raid and so fixed it. Excessive use of any strategy is also cheesing entire teams abusing grenades or rockets or what have you in an attempt to overwhelm the A I with a strategy designed to abuse a mechanic to its fullest extent. Finally we have exploits. This is the flat out abuse of glitches that arent a part of intended gameplay. The Crota kneeling glitch is an example as well as the bridge glitches. These circumvent gameplay challenges altogether and are blatantly unintended by bungie. 1. Strategies are fine to use. 2. Cheesing is fine but I don't blame bungie for fixing them. If we circumvent their intentions using normal gameplay mechanics then they just made an oversight and it should be fixed. 3. Exploits are a more heinous. They clearly fly in the face of intended gameplay by abusing broken glitches in the game. Exploits go above and beyond well designed strategies or saturating the A I with overly coordinated strategies bungie didn't forsee. Exploiting glitches to circumvent gameplay altogether breaks the spirit of the game and should be stopped as soon as possible.

Cheesing has just become a means to an end. Since rng dictates what you'll receive people just want to hurry up something thats not that difficult to begin with. If you can find a way to exploit something thats a developer mistake in the coding then why not? If what your really after is the end result does it matter how its done?

I've beaten Crota just 3 times, and if the group I was playing with decided to cheese, then we cheesed. Finding a Raid group is hard enough, so I take it when I can get it cheese or not.

I do it both ways But I do agree that my morals aren't affected when I cheese..... There is a shed load of faults, disappointments, restricted access, broken promises, lack of game play, needless nerfs, glitches etc etc..... Within this game, that a major software team such as bungie should of corrected months ago But they focus on nerfing cheese, because they want for people to play the game how they intended...Properly! But how can we play the game Properly when it constantly glitches? Ran Deathsinger last night, how many times did I go in the room to find No shrieker? Add this to the million other glitches that bungie know about but ignore? Yes it's a different subject, bungie glitches vs whether cheesing is acceptable I agree But when bungie can be bothered to listen to its users, and fix glitches, give us more content, more story, more vault space, a Queens event not repeated iron fkin banner...etc etc. Then I'll play how I'm supposed to As I sed b4 I can't play the game Properly, when it doesn't Play properly!

Get a tampon you bitch, come Tuesday you're gonna have to spend the hours I spent doing the raid like a normal -blam!-ing gamer.

It just shows lack of skill. And if you normally cheese then you will struggle with the hard raid because you've never beat it legit. I don't cheese because I didn't buy the game so I could use glitches. I like a challenge. That's why I don't cheese. Getting the shiny stuff legit is much more rewarding. You should try it. Well actually you'll have no choice because they patched it all. So what now?

Lol quit whining like a little Bitch cx this stuff happens anyways. I mean were you not expecting this update to happen? We're you solely depending on this glitch? Because that's the only impression your giving off lol just do the raid like how they intended it to be played.