JavaScript is required to use Bungie.net

Service Alert
Destiny 2 will be temporarily offline tomorrow for scheduled maintenance. Click here to view latest Destiny Server and Update Status.

#feedback

1/5/2015 8:10:04 PM
169

How cheesing affects us all

So, as I understand it, the conventional wisdom goes that cheesing is an appropriate way to play the game because an individuals decision to cheese has no bearing on any other player, and consequently it follows that any player complaining about cheesing is complaining about something that does not affect him, or her. I believe this is demonstrably false not limited to the following reasons: 1. Iron Banner Destiny contains a competitive element that is not modified to compensate for level difference. Players that have cheesed Crota have quicker access to level 32 gear when compared to legit players who have the trouble of finding a fully competent raid team. Some legit players who have played for many hours may have struggled to obtain level 32 gear and when they get into the Iron Banner, they will be immediately disadvantaged when compared to the players that have cheesed because a player who cheeses probably has faster access to loot and gear in comparison. 2. Cheesing Creates A False Economy When players cheese Crota it inherently follows that far many more people have access to L32 Raid Gear and Raid Weapons. This is because some players that cheese are not competent enough to complete it legit and ordinarily wouldn't have had access to those weapons. This means that the game is awash with more Raid weaponry than Bungie might have anticipated. This is bad news for anyone hoping for a trading system, because now a false economy has been created for those weapons and their value is driven down. This will make it very different to implement an in-game economy when it is being artificially influenced by cheesing. And, even if you don't want trading it is still bad news because when the player base is saturated with Raid weapons and armour, it will make Bungie reluctant to give the power and perks to this loot that it so clearly deserves if you've gone through the trouble of playing straight up, because they will be concerned about it being too prevalent when taken into PvP for example. Here we can see how cheesing might influence the quality of gear that Bungie is willing to make available in future Raids. 3. I would argue that cheesing limits development time, however I feel that this is time that Bungie should have spent anyway before the Raid is released to make sure that these cheeses aren't available. So instead (I accept this is my weakest argument) I'll argue that it limits development options because instead of being encouraged to be bold and increase complexity or creativity, Bungie will be so concerned about cheeses that this process might be inhibited in favour of making sure players are not abusing game content, or exploiting checkpoints etc etc. Instead of focusing on a new intricate mechanic, they'll be preoccupied with making sure you're not using a disconnect glitch. 4. Most persuasively in my opinion cheesing affects everyone because its prevalence is encouraging otherwise legit players to take part despite not wanting to. Here the argument about people's freedom to play the game however you like cannot hold true. Any freedoms we have are generally only exercisable insofar as they do not infringe on the rights of another. Therefore it cannot be said that cheesers are free to cheese when it is limiting the right of legit players to play the game as it was intended. I cannot enforce my right to cheat when it removes another right to play the game as it was designed. I'm open to criticism of course, please leave your comments. And please feel free to add to my observations. But I hope it is clear that saying cheesing affects no one else is not necessarily true.

Posting in language:

 

Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • There's "cheesing" (which I don't have a problem with, because some parts of this game are almost unplayable without doing it)....and then there's *cheating*. (which I do have a problem with). Cheesing== playing WITHIN the game's mechanics to simplify a fight. One man's "cheesing" is another man's "smart play". Cheating== using exploits, glitches, bugs and other manuevers outside of normal game play to avoid having to play the game. Not trying to rush the first part of the raid as a mob==Cheesing. I have no problem with that. Glitching the bridge before Crota's Chamber.....I have mixed feelings about. I feel its kind of cheating. Breaking to network connection to keep Crota from being able to fight. Flat out cheating.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    6 Replies
    • Cheese? Legit? What's the difference? Since you are expressing your opinion, let me negate each point for you.... 1. Iron Banner is a fluke. Had I wanted to play PvP game modes I would simply play CoD AW or fore up my PS3 and play MW3 or Blogs 1 or 2. Plus seeing as how I don't play Iron Banner, I think it is unfair for that to be a viable option for gear that can raise you to 32, as it takes no skill, just play it and you will eventually get the rank needed to buy the gear with glimmer....yeah, glimmer. 2. There is no false economy, simply because and in-game economy doesn't exist. Nothing from your characters including shaders, armor, guns, glimmer, motes, strange coins, consumables, exp. points, or anything else for that matter can be transferred to another character outside of your own three that you are given an option to create. You are just speculating on this one. Don't get mad at someone for screwing with your daydream. 3. Cheese doesn't limit development time. The development time has been from December 9 2014 until as far as I know, now. This whole time the "DLC" has been out has been used to test the raid, weapons and the like. People find problems and glitches or exploits and it gets fixed. Free testing as far as the eye can see. 4. If you are in a group that is cheesing, leave if you don't want to cheese. As far as I know, no single person can cheese anything for the group outside of the lamp cheese that does not require the cooperation of the group. If you are playing with a group who wants to get cheesy, and you are reluctant yet you allow yourself to participate then you have no will power or self control. The point is: None of this will affect you. The most any other player in the game can do to you is push you off a ledge or boot you from a fireteam. That's about it really. If you don't have the gear you need or want then you should put down the phone/computer and log into Destiny and play it. Posting on forums isn't gonna get you to 32 or win an Iron Banner match.

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      1 Reply
      • I would say you are fundamentally wrong on all but one point. 1. Iron Banner would only be effected if only cheesers were 32 in it. The many other guardians that went through Crota's End legit and found themselves in possession of some nice shiny new armor can be there as well and are that much wiser for playing it legit. 2. There is no economy. The only thing the false appearance gives is when others are inspected they see the raid gear and go "Hey, that guy has killed Crota a lot." Because there is no AH or trading system, there is in fact no economy to ruin. 3. Though you say this is your weakest point, it is in fact your strongest. Due to a multitude of complaints that a cheese is available, instead of fixing a rather lengthy list of issues or adding much needed content, we are instead faced with a patch to fix the cheese. 4. Though many will find themselves in groups that want to cheese, they are by no means required to stay and encourage it. In fact I would say they should leave and use their checkpoint as a bonus to new groups. Though this is hardly your most persuasive argument, it does send a message about the lack of will power and moral standing of the Destiny player who wants to play legit but lets others convince them to cheese. This is less criticism and more rebuttal, but then again I have read some the other post. You seem to be taking it well.

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      • I'm a proud cheeser, and I commend you sir. This was an extremely well written post. However, my stance on cheesing is that: If Bungie would focus some of their efforts on fixing real problems in this game, and not incessantly altering how the people who are supporting their game play it, we might get somewhere. There will always be cheese. When the first Templar cheese appeared, the one where your whole fireteam camped the platform, I didn't even bother to do it. I felt it wasn't worth the trouble and fought him legit, then Bungie patched it. That was when "pushing" the Templar became a thing. It was highly efficient and I used it for that reason and another. The loot system is too random to not play smart. I look at cheesing as working "smarter not harder". I have a friend who runs a hunter as his primary character. He never recieved anything more than a chestpiece from VOG and has yet to recieve anything other than a chestpiece from CE. If I was him I would've quit this game by now. Why would he run the whole raid legitimately for likely no rewards when there is an easier way? I personally have recieved five fusion rifles from Crota. I have another friend who for two straight weeks, across three characters, recieved nothing but radiant materials from Crota. The current endgame boss who is the only source for 36 light legendary helms and all raid weapons. This game has far too many problems for Bungie to be rushing out cheese patches and leaving community reported problems untouched. I don't mind doing the the content legitimately. Its a matter of efficiency. If Bungie would spend half of the time fixing real problems with this game that they spend fixing a few cheeses, we might be a step closer to what we all want this game to become.

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

        5 Replies
        • Well written:)...I'm really happy the cheese is now fixed...I respect people's decision to play how they want but in nearly every team I was in they always tried to force this decision on me...my only option being to accept I've wasted a heap of time and leave the team and begin the search again....last night we had some little kid drop in and asked if he could hide in the corner or if we could invite him in right at the end so he could get rewards....I wish people would just play the game

          Posting in language:

           

          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

        • My god ur virtual life is over grow a pair and adapt to the community don't like it then hmmmmm.....gtfo

          Posting in language:

           

          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

        • Lol it's a game not your wife...just have fun you don't have to play with "cheesers" does it make you cry with pain? I doubt it, but idk. There more important things than someone has better stuff. No offense intended. JUST HAVE FUN you can leave fireteam if they cheese or boot if your leader. Just an option. PS please no trading.

          Posting in language:

           

          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

        • They should just make it so that if someone cheeses the raid, it won't give them any rewards, or make it so that any rewards they do get are significantly weaker than even level 10 gear, that'll make them stop

          Posting in language:

           

          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

          1 Reply
          • God the cheesing community is just pathetic.

            Posting in language:

             

            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

            1 Reply
            • Edited by The Smoker II: 1/6/2015 4:02:53 PM
              Point 1 response: Nobody cares about Iron Banner. It sucks and the armor sucks. Point 2 response: There will never be a trading system because Bungie is scared that without artificial grind people will quit playing. Point 3 response: If they had confident testers this would have never happened. Point 4 response: This is just a total load of BULL SHIT! Do whatever you want and let others do as they please.

              Posting in language:

               

              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

              4 Replies
              • Guess what. This game doesn't reward skill. It doesn't matter if you're good or not. Everyone gets the same chance at gear whether or not people do it the right way or takes a shortcut. Eventually everyone gets a random reward for their kill. Work smarter not harder.

                Posting in language:

                 

                Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                2 Replies
                • The only thing cheesing does is add flavor. Could you imagine cheetos without the cheesing process? What would you even call that. [spoiler]This joke is as ridiculous as your article.[/spoiler]

                  Posting in language:

                   

                  Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                  1 Reply
                  • Death to cheesers! Pure trash of the community.

                    Posting in language:

                     

                    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                    1 Reply
                    • I cheese for my own purpouses mainly cause I know that destisny will just come and crap on the gear. Any since of acomplishment I would get from vog went out the window when the dlc came out.

                      Posting in language:

                       

                      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                      4 Replies
                      • Your frumunda cheese is affecting people

                        Posting in language:

                         

                        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                      • Yeah cheeseing effects the players Outside of the game. So many posts on the forums make it seems like all we players care about is the cheese. When I would love to see more people posting about fixing the VoG hard mode bugs or the heavy ammo glitch. I have seen a fair share of really great ideas go by the way side due to people being overly concerned about how others play the game. More than just the cheese should be addressed on a consistent bases.

                        Posting in language:

                         

                        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                      • Best well written insight to how cheesing is an inappropriate way to play the game. My first Crota Raid last week was completely cheesed and was the most boring thing I have done on this game to date. I dont even want to really do the raid anymore now because all you can find is groups that want to cheese instead of taking on a challenge.

                        Posting in language:

                         

                        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                      • The only valid point you have is your first one. And even that has limited application. The rest is drivel.

                        Posting in language:

                         

                        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                      • There is no economy in this game.

                        Posting in language:

                         

                        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                        1 Reply
                        • If you believe how I play has an impact on the game, and you specifically, I'd suggest you're delusional at best and paranoid and dangerous at worst. Maybe getting some help would be a good idea? Or maybe get out of the house on occasion?

                          Posting in language:

                           

                          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                        • BRING ON THE BAN HAMMER!

                          Posting in language:

                           

                          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                        • Iron banner is as boring and as repetitive as the rest of this game anyway. Everyone is at least level 31 in there. Your dumb if you go in lower than that. Maybe if there was a pve event it wouldn't matter how you got your gear. But bungie likes pushing pvp on people. And when you get to level 32 you look just like every one else in your class. I thought you were suppose to become legend. Not the same as every other guardian.

                          Posting in language:

                           

                          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                        • You should also add to this that bungie will most likely be delaying the hard raid because of the many cheeses. Can't beat that argument, and it[b] definitely[/b] effects everyone

                          Posting in language:

                           

                          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                          1 Reply
                          • Thank you for a smart post. I agree.

                            Posting in language:

                             

                            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                          • If you do it the legit way, you should stop crying in Ironbanner. Anyway, how did you know if this person with the full raid gear in ironbanner cheesed his equipment? There is NO way how you can proof that. So why do you care about it. If there is a player that destroys you in IB deal with it. Of course there are better players in the Ironbanner. But I keep repeating myself. I hope you understand what I was trying to say.

                            Posting in language:

                             

                            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                          • Cheesers are easy to spot was playing against a 32 in the ib and all he did was sit beside the ammo box and shoot people with pocket infinity.

                            Posting in language:

                             

                            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                            2 Replies
                            You are not allowed to view this content.
                            ;
                            preload icon
                            preload icon
                            preload icon