I'm almost certain, considering how little feedback Bungie listened to with TDB, that the new raid, along with all the important content of the new DLC is already made. It's pretty clear at this point that Bungie had a lot of content, cut it from the main game and released it in these DLCs. Hell, they may want to improve their game, I believe they do, I just think that this content was already finished so they didn't do anything to change it. I think House of Wolves will pretty much be the same as the Dark Below. If the 3rd DLC doesn't change anything though I will no longer have any faith in Bungie, because at that point they will have deliberately ignored feedback in content they created past the release of the game.

Okay the hard raid is out today and people are already at Crota's checkpoint after 45 minutes. All those people saying wait till hard mode well here it is. My point still stands

Am I right?

Yet most people aren't good enough to do it legit. So sad.

Yeah me and one other person got to crota in 20-30 mins right b4 work lol

Yeah you're right. The Vault has wayyyyy more going on. The Crota raid is a joke.

I completely agree with you VOG is much better than crotas end. VOG seem like it took way more effort than crotas end even without cheesing any of the raids. Also does anybody else not understand why you dont get a loot drop for the wizards bit before crota, personally i think it is one of the hardest parts of the raid and you dont get anything form it.

VOG is the best "mission" I've played since the Vidmaster challenges. CE just doesn't seem connected to itself from start to finish. I would like a reworked VOG over CE for the same money.

Two totally different raids...and I like that. Crota was irritating at first but I've come to enjoy it. It's just different then VoG and that's refreshing. Variety; it's the spice if life. I'm not one for super crazy hard mega challenges that will raise my blood pressure and help me to die earlier. Games for me are supposed to be relaxing fun, so maybe someday then can give you maniacs a hard challenge and let the rest of us have a chill fun experience ....but still let us folks get some cool toys. That's what I dislike about hard mode=it's the only area that drops Fatebringer/vex/etc.

Until they fix all the cheesing, I agree. Crota has a lot of potential but the way it's structured right now is kind of ridiculous with the ability to easily solo up to the Deathsinger. Hell, even without cheesing, the whole raid is very short and more simple compared to VoG. Crota himself requires a bit more communication, teamwork, and timing than Atheon did but now that most people are 31 going on 32 I think it's going to be easier and easier to finish legit quickly.

Is the bridge part even possible with 2 people without cheddar?

VOG was fun, challenging and required teamwork. Crotas end only requires teamwork at the end... Plus the crota raid is just boring.

Crota's End simply lacks content. They -blam!-ed up big-time.

CE is an awesome raid. They both are great journeys and both are appreciated.

People who have one manned the raids or two manned it (VoG) let me first say, more power to you, congratulations, it's a few that only a few will ever be able to do. However, as the raids are the only 6 man PVE missions that is in this game it's pretty sad that bungie couldn't create anything that was more challenging. VOG was awesome. CE, not so much. The lantern phase could have actually been a maze with lanterns that result in dead ends. The holes? Could have dropped you into a lower level resulting in that player to trek back alone to (possibly) catch up with the team. The bridge I think is actually well thought. Just cheesed too often. Really though? I do it just because I have the option and it saves time and energy. But that part was creative. The hallway. I thought that was going to consist of much more. It could have been like the lantern phase again but with shriekers and ogres in its path. Like a long hallway with thralls coming from the back, and ogres and shriekers coming from the front. An actual six man push through the bridge. Parts of the bridge only activated when a shriekers is destroyed. Failing to do so is similar to the invisible wall, but rather just another part of the bridge not forming while killing thralls. Not fast enough? Bridge destroyed. Weight of darkness could actually be applied here. The death singers liturgy is ok. Anything lvl 32 just deal with after. And no chest after? Really? And then the actual fight with Crota. Is fun. Though it really comes down to your sword bearer. The three and three team split for VOG, really set roles within the mission. Now let's see what happens when you split us up even more 2/2/2. [b]Timing was a huge part of CE, and could have been played with even further[/b] Also, there was no real "breaks" from what we were doing in CE. The gorgon maze and invisible jump puzzle in VoG was a welcoming site from all the action. please, please make house of wolves better than this BUNGIE.

CE does feel shorter but it is the different style of each race. VoG was mechanical and CE is much more brute force and large numbers. We will have to see how hard mode CE is. Hopefully with the delay it has a lot more changes to it than VoG normal to VoG hard

I'm guessing part of that is the "theme" of the two raids. I believe in an interview they said the CE raid is all about "decent" and a one way trip. While the Vault was a "mysterious" chamber of secrets. Don't quote me on those two though. But I do agree, the Vault and CE have different mechanics that make CE solo'able while Vault is impossible to solo. And I also agree that they should have had alternate passages and secrets

Dude I couldn't agree more, after getting to crota with my friend when I had no experience I knew this raid was too easy