Had to leave 2 groups that were made up on the forums last night because they wanted to cheese every aspect of the raid. I want to play the game for, wait for it, shock horror, FUN! Luckily I found another that actually wanted to do the raid properly. It was a blast as 1 person was a first timer. I've given up trying to reason with the cheeser's. If people what to cheese, let them. Let it boost their self esteem. Just find another group who actually wants to play the game for what it is.