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11/17/2014 5:47:19 AM
317
Gjallarhorn vs The Swarm (With Field Scout) on Atheon. By the numbers.
If you pug and play the raid you see everyone posting they either have or want players with the G Horn. But how much damage does it do compared to a FS Swarm? This is strictly by the numbers, simple math in a perfect world for max damage potential.
A fully ugraded G Horn on a level 30 on Hard does 12,000 damage on impact and 1,100 (rounded down) from every Wolf Pack submunition. So 12,000 + 8,800 = 20,800 per Rocket. G Horn holds 2 rockets per mag (41,600 damage per mag)
Most players hold 7 rockets at once but a few with the right gear can hold up to 8, but it is rare so 7 is the number we will use. 7 • 20,800 = 145,600 damage for all 7. (166,400 for 8)
A Swarm with Field Scout holds a 60 round drum, and on a 30 on VoG Hard does 2,500 damage (rounded down) a crit per round. So 60 • 2,500 = 150,000 damage for one mag of 60 rounds is the max damage potential for a FS Swarm. But we all know criting with all 60 isnt going to happen, its just not. However criting with ½ a mag, now thats doable. 1,200 a body shot • 30 = 36,000 + 75,000 = 111,000 damage per 60 round mag.
If you hold 7 G Horn rockets you also hold 180 rounds for a FS Swarm (rounded down from 181). With the same method as above we can show max damage and realistic damage. 150,000 • 3 = 450,000 max and 111,000 • 3 = 333,000 more realistic. And more than twice the damage as the G Horn but it can take 2-3 Times of vengence to get all 180 out. With G Horn getting all 7 out in ToV is doable but very unlikely, unless you pop a heavy ammo just before ToV.
Not to mention wiping costs heavy ammo at a rate of 1-2 rockets (20,800 - 41,600 damage) vs 13 Swarm rounds.
Would you use G Horn if you were behind on killing the Oracles or a Swarm?
Results in several catagorys:
Max Damage overall: Swarm
Damage per mag: Swarm
Damage in a 20 second window (7 rockets vs 70-90 Rounds) G Horn (by a hair)
Usefulness on Oracles: Swarm
Usefulness on Praetoian: G Horn
Usefulness on supplicants: Swarm
Less likely to kill operator: Swarm
Damage loss per death: G Horn
Weapon with less restrictions: Swarm (Frees up an Exotic to be used like Ice Breaker)
Winner: Swarm, as long as it has Field Scout.
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I never miss with the swarm. It like a sniper rifle. I dont have field scout. Only 33 in the mag
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Mine doesn't have field scout but what I usually do I hit aetheon with gjallarhorn and then switch to black hammer and hit him some more
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If you've ever wanted a Gjallarhorn, look at what Sam Legacy does to one. You'll cry! I know I did!
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Shooting all 7 rockets in a ToV isnt unlikely lol. You do it with 7 seconds left infact. Now here is the thing. The swarm cannot fire every round into atheon in one ToV. Eve. The corrective measure hardly does. Ive sat in the middle waiting to shoot, watching my gun light up. That is one way to unload a whole gun into him. A full 30 seconds of machine gun. The swarm will make it, but its close. So if youre teleported you will not be able to do full damage. However with a gjallarhorn you have 7 seconds to get where you want, assuming you take a second to get a cleanse. This would mean you can or shoot off 7 rockets, or maybe 6 depending on your speed of moving around to your shooting location. If you use the swarms rounds per minute, you will do very little damage compared to a gjallargorn if you miss even 7 seconds of shooting. So i see what youre saying and the problem is, the gjallarhorn is just so strong... it is annoying that other weapons cant be as strong, but its also nice. Gives you a feeling of power to recieve that one amazing gun. A lot like gettinv a pre patched vex mythoclast. Better believe i was in crucible with the vex mythoclast when i pulled off my 9800 score in control! Or however high it was 9550~. Anyway, now the more relevant arguement is the fact that the black hammer does more damage in a ToV.
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Your argument is invalid. If you know what you are doing you can get all seven rockets out in one times vengeance. As opposed to one magazine with the swarm if you are lucky. You also forget to factor in that there will ALWAYS be someone shooting him with rockets so he will be moving. Thus making it harder to hit him. And if you really want to talk about dps against any boss. You forgot about any high impact sniper, specifically the black hammer. Which will do aboot 13,000 per shot. Also if you're bored and didn't get teleported you can just sit there and shoot at him. One person can easily drop him by a fifth health just chilling there waiting for the relic to show up
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Only thing that really seperates the choice between the two is the accuracy. Homing rockets are almost guaranteed to hit while you still have to aim the gun.
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I still don't have a ghorn. But I do have a swarm with field scout and I love it! It's actually the only heavy I use and because it's void it makes short work of praetorians too. It wrecks in the crucible as well.
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Edited by Beetfarmer89: 1/11/2015 9:50:21 AMNice write up. I enjoyed the read and I am always looking for more data like this. +1 I've said for ages now that LMG's are better overall then Gjallarhorn. Death to the operator is a big one. All it takes is one team mate to step in front of your rocket, and you just summoned the oversoul.
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Gotta figure in time it takes to run through a drum from a machine gun reload and repeat to the time to fire a rocket twice reload and repeat. Gjallarhorn does incredible damage per second that cant be matched by any weapon.
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9 Repliesand if youre doing the titan bubble with weapons of light and illuminated on the floating platform using the relic bubble to shoot out of thats an even greater advantage for the swarm since you cant shoot the ghorn out of the bubble. using the 333,000 adding the weapons of light +35% damage increase thats 449,550 per total rounds. a whole team of ghorns wont get the advantage using the middle platform method cause the cant shoot out of the relic bubble
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It's when you are at or below the enemies level when it really helps
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I have and have used both. Both effective. You are accurate, Swarm gives more options and is safe from inside the relic bubble. Also 50% miss rate on crits? I maybe miss 2 out of 10 and that is only if he starts a turn at a bad angle, I can easily not miss for half the mag i.e. 30ish rounds. The slow fire rate makes crits easily, and for info, you have plenty of Time's vengeance (with a good team) to drop the 60 round mag. and then Ice Breaker him, and that more than gets level playing field with a G-horn. Yes it might take an extra round, yes I'll do that every time for a consistent kill with no heavy synths wasted.
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How long does it take to empty the swarm?
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TL:DR; Corrective Measure. GG.
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Just got dragons breath in the nightfall
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Ive said this all along XD ghorn just does massive NOTICEABLE damage. I can see how much faster the bar goes down with my swarm, 60 shots then throw two fusion grenades then i run out XD hes usually down to half health if im using it, much, much less if im not haha
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1 ReplyMy vote in on MG18- Harm's Way with field scout. 1600 per crit with 100rds at max fire rate..... holds 301 rounds total.. usually can get out a mag and a half no problem.. beat aetheon on hard in 32 total seconds of times vengeance which is pretty good imo.
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2 RepliesEdited by Sgt Big One: 11/18/2014 11:51:15 AMCan everyone stop calling it [i]times of vengeance[/i] it's [i]Time's Vengeance[/i].
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5 RepliesThis is such a biased post. You don't take a lot of things into account. Not to mention Ghorn has 14 Wolfpack rockets, not 8. The time it takes to shoot two rockets is not equal to the time it takes to shoot a full clip of HMG. It also doesn't take into account Ghorn is tracking rockets. You can launch the rocket(s) and swap quickly or make a run to cover or shooting before you get to the bubble. Supplicants? Hmmm Ghorn can take out a wave in one shot....if not more. Both can be very good, but are good for different uses and play styles. But nothing out dps' Ghorn in bursts right now....maybe there is over time, but that would be do to ammo.
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I be honest I use both and get about the same results Just like I can get the same number if kill with any legendary or exotic, it's about being a good player not your gear
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I would say regardless the stats, you can shoot and forget with gjallarhorn. That alone is worth it
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Edited by JOBO_althor: 11/25/2014 11:24:27 PMHow does jolders hammer compare to the swarm? I also see a flaw in this post. In order for the people to use the swarm the relic carrier has to be wasted to create the shield. If you all shoot gallarhorns from different places (while keeping track of where the supplicant are) you will be able to use the relic to hit atheon as well.
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G.horn is good for the start of a raid. Icebreaker still a beast if doing middle platform method. 12k per crit shot during times vengeance
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11 RepliesHeres why I'm gunna say no. I know you pointed out you aren't critical on every shot with swarm but I would argue a good amount miss the mark. Also it is much easier and faster to shoot atheon with a rocket than a slow firing MG. Also the reload time Is slow on swarm. While in one times vengeance you could easily get off all 7 rockets I'm not seeing you getting even near emptying out your whole MG into him. GHorn wins by far. As a matter of fact I use corrective measure in pve and have never used swarm for anything besides pvp since. Corrective is a far superior pve MG as are most other machine guns. Swarm is the best MG for pvp hands down but not the best or near it in pve
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I'd say only 8-9 bullets actually crit, the other you miss or he moves so the damage is much lower. Also getting field scout on the swarm isn't easily attainable. But I agree on some bits, a fully leveled LMG is more than fine for Athlon HM. I usually use my corrective measure (cause oriclez) but I also have a full swarm and it rocks. Also zombie apocalypse is pretty beasty.
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1 ReplyMy swarm doesn't have field scout, sad face...
