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Edited by Advertiser 7:
11/6/2014 6:28:37 AM
280
To all those who are defending Bungie on the matter of the locked DLC (Or anything else for that matter)
Bungie planned to release what they are now releasing as DLC as part of the base game. There are ViDocs from last year that showed places like the Reef and Old Chicago as being fully textured, designed, and playable, but yet you insist that such content was still in development around that time. I can smell the bullshit miles away, so let me drop some facts.
- Halo: Reach had content cut from the base game to be released later and resold as DLC, the Noble Map Pack being a very clear example of this
-There were multiple videos showing areas such as the Reef, Old Chicago, the Fields of Glass, and other areas not in the game as being textured and playable
-The coding is full of unused weapons, vehicles, Shaders, Ghost shells, and numerous other items that are very clearly designed and intended for the "DLC"
-Fields of Glass and Old Chicago are still in the game's coding and still coded for the most part
-Bungie began developing Destiny sometime between 2007-2008, and this development process hit full steam in about 2010 following the release of Halo: Reach. That's 2-3 years of preptime and 4 years of actual development
So, your argument implies that one employee leaving 6 years into the development around the same time the game was supposed to be released would absolutely screw up everything, including parts of the game he really had nothing to do with? So a story writer leaving a game long after he had written out the story (assuming that somebody as skilled as Joseph Staten would have had at least a basic plotline established after 6 years of worktime) would make it so Bungie had to cut out large quantities of the game's content? Explain to me how exactly his departure would make them remove the Reef, Fields of Glass, Old Chicago, and numerous Strikes even though little to no story is actually necessary for them to be playable?
Yes, Bungie had to move up the release date to 2014, but that doesn't help their case in the slightest. It makes it even worse. They had 6 years to make a game, and then an extra year to fix everything. What do they have to show for it? A game that has a content level lower than games that have maybe a year of development time, with Call of Duty being an example of this. Yes, each CoD game just uses a modified engine of the previous game, but lets say it takes a year or two to make a new engine. That leaves Bungie with five or six years to simply make content for people to play. If Treyarch and Infinity Ward were able to take 6-12 months of dev time and make mass quantities of satisfying and fun things to do in their games, then why can't Bungie make more content than them with four YEARS to do so? They should have been able to have four times as much content as, say, Modern Warfare 2. Instead, they made almost four times LESS content with four times MORE development time. Another comparison to a famous developer and their franchise will help prove that Bungie had more than enough time to release more content instead of cutting it out to sell as DLC on the excuse of "they needed more time to work on it."
Bethesda and The Elder Scrolls. Now, each Elder Scrolls game Bethesda makes has an average development time of 6 years; on par with Destiny's development time. Lets talk about the most recent TES game, Skyrim. It had a similar development pattern to Destiny's: two years of minor development, and then around four years of fullblown development. Now lets look at what Bethesda produced in that time compared to what Bungie produced in a similar time frame:
[quote]Skyrim: 150 Dungeons
Destiny: 6 Strikes[/quote]
[quote]Skyrim: 244 Quests
Destiny: 23 Story Missions and 1 Raid[/quote]
[quote]Skyrim: 10 Playable Areas
Destiny: 4 Playable Areas (I'd also like to point out that each Hold in Skyrim is bigger than any single PLANET in Destiny)[/quote]
[quote]Skyrim: Approximately 600 non-hostile interactive NPCs
Destiny: 18 non-hostile interactive NPCs[/quote]
[quote]Skyrim: 300+ Points of Interest
Destiny: No Points of Interest; no side-quests/missions/activities in Patrol other than Patrol missions and Public Events[/quote]
[quote]Skyrim: 8 Playable Races, each with unique abilities and traits
Destiny: 3 Playable Races, purely cosmetic[/quote]
I could compare even more, but the point is apparent. Now, you could go ahead and tell me "You can't really compare Bungie to Bethesda," but I can. Both had a similar time frame, both were producing an open world RPG, both are experienced developers. But if you will hold to that argument, the lets go back to Treyarch, Infinity Ward, and the other CoD developers. 8 times less dev time for producing in-game content than Destiny did, and they produced far more content than Destiny did. Not to mention Bungie is far more experienced than any of those devs.
And now for one crushing comparison you really can't argue with. Bungie, compared to Bungie.
In an interview with UOL Jogos, Christian Diefenbach, software engineer at Bungie, revealed that each planet in Destiny is roughly the same size as the entirety of Halo: Reach:
[quote]"The destinations [scenarios where the game takes you] like Mars, Moon, Earth, each one is more or less the same size as the entire game 'Halo: Reach'."[/quote]
He also explained that the game has a much bigger team working on it:
[quote]"In 'Halo', We worked in a team of 130 people. Now there are over 500 people working on 'Destiny'."[/quote]
Lets look at Moon now, shall we? Can you honestly tell me that that area is anywhere CLOSE to being "more or less the same size as the entire game Halo: Reach?" No? What about Venus? No? Well what about Mars? Closer, but still nowhere near the same size. What about the Cosmodrome, which is the largest area in the game? Even counting the inaccessible "DLC" areas, this area is barely bigger than Reach's base Multiplayer mode. Reach took 3 years to make, but was far bigger in scale and in actual in-game content; with just one of Reach's MP maps being the size of almost all of Moon. Reach had dozens of unique Multiplayer gametypes, while Destiny only has a whopping 2-3 (If you even count Control as a non-Deathmatch gametype) gametypes. Reach's campaign was around 12 hours long, and Destiny's was around 6 (Not counting having to grind to even access all of the story.) Reach had 13 MP maps, Destiny has 11. A close number, yes; but Destiny's MP maps don't even compare to Reach's. Destiny's biggest MP map, Bastion, is about the same size as a medium size MP map from Reach; Paradiso.
Destiny took six years to make, but has less content than other games which took 2-3 years and even some that took 6 months. Games of equal development time to Destiny have ridiculously more content than it. So, in a six year development time, you are honestly going to try and tell everybody here that Bungie intended to have a small amount of content, and that they didn't cut the majority of Destiny out to resell as DLC? If you are, then if you're right that makes Bungie the most pathetic, lazy, unintelligent, mismanaged, and incompetent game developers to ever exist.
English
#Destiny
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25 RepliesIt's saddening to think that the company that made Halo 2 fell to making the mediocre mess known as Destiny. Both had content cut from the final version, yet Halo 2 had much more re-playability and despite the broken launch MM, still kicks Destiny's ass to the curb.
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138 RepliesEdited by FairlySplendid: 11/7/2014 4:51:13 PMA reply from a member of this community who followed Destiny's development VERY closely. Don't believe me, do a search on b.net and reddit for "USplendid": I won't even waste my energy on the whole "locked away DLC" sillyness. That just a gamers [i]trying[/i] to sound informed while vilifying things they don't fully understand. People love to point fingers, raise their pitchforks, and act like they have some higher level understanding of sh*t the they know f*ck-all about. Moving on.... Destiny (as it was presented to the public) was never sold as "Skyrim in space" or the next WoW or even an MMO. Bungie and Activision always shied away from those comparisons. The reason: Destiny is really just a shoot and loot game. For better or worse, an ARPG shooter in the same genre as Borderlands. A diet MMO [i]light[/i]. For a more causal console crowd. Bungie though this would be enough honestly didn't comprehend how quickly people would consume the content or how quickly the community would master and surpass the game. Bungie's major misstep was (1) not being bluntly honest to the MMO crowd that this game is not a traditional fully-fleshed-out MMO, (2) not being bluntly honest to the competitive multiplayer crowd that Destiny is more focused on PvE than it was PvP and (3) not anticipating the demand for more content. Not understanding that what they were planning on delivering wasn't enough. Had they just been upfront about those things, there would have been less of an out cry and maybe more of an opportunity for dialogue prior to launch. Where in Bungie would have realized that they needed to triple the amount of "stuff" in this game before release. Moral of the story, it is not fair compare Destiny to games and genres that it was never intended to compete directly with. Destiny was and is an abridged and easier to digest version of an ARPG for people with limited gaming time. Bungie just did a really sh*t job explaining that to the public and didn't comprehend that, that would not be enough to satisfy us or make us happy. When you understand what the game actually is and what is was intended to be, agree or disagree, you begin to realize that it didn't miss the mark as much are some people claim. Regardless, people walked in with misconceptions and overhyped. Ultimately, we're not able to appreciate the game. So moving on to the famous Portuguese interview. The original BIGGER THAN REACH statement.... the headline should read "don't trust google translate." The actual quote, when translated properly, reads a more like vague marketing speak. It uses phrasing like [i]"some areas"[/i] so on and so forth. I'm paraphrasing, but the point is that the quote isn't as damning as some people make it out to be. It's just more marketing fluff that community took as gospel. Never taking anything as gospel in game development. Things always change and developers always oversell themselves. It's common sense, really. The point is not that I'm defending Bungie. I personally feel that Bungie failed on multiple fronts which resulted in a game with the potential to a 9 out of 10 but ultimately landed IMO at 6.5 or 7. An ok game, a decent game, but not life-changing. What it's not is the Anti-Christ or the Gateway to Hell that some drama queens make it out to be. So much hyperbole in this community. Destiny isn't a "lie". It wasn't built on falsehoods. It's the culmination of what happens when you have a gaming community that overhyped themselves and a developer too naive to understand that in today's gaming culture you have to explain things like we're five. You have to explain the development process. Walk us through major changes. Hold our hands while you explain to us why it costs $250+ million and 6 years to build the infrastructure and development the assists for a franchise. People today want a printed itemized spreadsheet and an explanation for [i]every last detail[/i] and need things over-explained. Because when you don't do that, you end up with a bunch of nerd-raging motherf*ckers who think they are smarter than everyone else. Constantly crying foul and clogging up the forums. [b]So at the end of the day, here is what we are left with. A developer that thought they knew better than everyone else that missed the mark and a self-entitled community that [i]also[/i] thinks they know better than everyone else. Two groups of assh*les who think they are the smartest man in the room. [/b] How about we all collectively (Bungie and the community) just accept it, eat our crow, and focus on working together to [i]proactively[/i] fix both the game itself and the sh*tty community that surrounds it. Instead of sitting on our asses bitching all day and weaving conspiracies..... Just for fun, here are about half the links I've gathered over the years about Destiny's development for context and reference and shits and giggles (I apologize in advance if any of these links have gone dead, some are pretty old): http://youtu.be/5wfmuzX1cuE http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post?id=64775956 http://youtu.be/s_ZNHPSsqn0 http://mp1st.com/2014/04/28/report-destinys-competitive-pvp-multiplayer-played-groups-threes/#.U2Afz_jSveI http://www.gamespot.com/articles/seven-facts-about-destiny-you-might-have-missed/1100-6417896/ http://teambeyond.net/forum/index.php?/topic/4464-the-bungie-januarycast-11614/ http://youtu.be/KCZ3-iTWMkc https://www.gameinformer.com/p/destiny.aspx http://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/1s1uvi/gameinformer_destiny_issue_bulletpoint_breakdown/ http://ge.tt/4QJpll81/v/0 http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post?id=62040755 http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post?id=63248423 http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post?id=63225748 http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post?id=63490092 http://desti-nation.org/article.php?id=104 http://www.edge-online.com/news/bungie-on-what-destiny-does-better-than-borderlands/ http://ign.com/articles/2013/10/31/destiny-devs-talk-space-travel-pc-and-microtransactions http://ign.com/articles/2013/11/01/destiny-how-halo-got-the-star-wars-treatment http://youtu.be/f9GNgeVejF8 http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-11-01-lets-talk-about-destiny http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-10-28-making-concept-art-a-virtual-reality-bungie-on-next-gen-destiny http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-06-21-destiny-how-to-save-online-worlds http://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/1n83qg/gameovercast_gamescom_interview_with_deej/ http://www.ign.com/blogs/majesticmaverick/2013/08/23/destiny-thoughts-from-gamescom/ http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post?id=61713295 http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-08-23-bungie-destiny-can-surpass-halo-sit-alongside-star-wars http://gamerant.com/bungie-destiny-call-of-duty-activision-sales/ http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/927/feature/7618 http://criticalpathproject.com/?v=38406722 http://ge.tt/1hDW9an/v/0 http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-02-17-destiny-bungie-unveils-its-shared-world-shooter Sincerely, some a-hole on the Internet. [b]EDIT: [/b]There are some running around that still don't get it. I'm not going to engage you in meaningless debate to "win" imaginary Internet points or circle jerk with my online broskis. I have zero interest in going back and forth with anyone about what bungie did or didn't do. It's time for people to stop bitching, stop nick-picking, stop trying to be "right" and instead work to [i]POSITIVELY[/i] make this game and community better by working [i]with[/i] Bungie from this point forward. Not beat a dead horse or rant about what [i]could[/i] have been. I'm telling you that it's time to shut the hell up and focus on ways to move [i]forward[/i] and put an end to this culture of rumors, negatively, naysaying and finger-pointing.
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1 Reply-blam!- it ! Seriously ! I want the game that I paid for , THAT'S ALL ! I WANT THE GAME I SEE IN BUNGIE VIDOC !!!!!!!! no rumors, no bullsh*t, I just want the thing that bungie said to us ... CONTENT ! I DON'T CARE what community said about cut content (I'm sure as hell is true BTW) AND IM SURE AS HONEST GUY AND AS A COSTUMER, THAT I WAS ABUSED ! Why ? SIMPLY BECAUSE BUNGIE LIED TO ALL OF US ! Thats all I know ! To all the DUMBF*CK Players that defending destiny, TELL ME WHY I DON'T GET WHAT WAS ADVETISED (BY BUNGIE), IF YOUR BUNGIE IS SO HONEST ? DO you want to see the vidoc ?
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Not a "dlc" if it's on ur disk already. ur really paying too get what u paided for already.
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This thread may have been relevant destiny year one but now it is destiny year 2 and there is no more cut content or locked dlc. We all know it happened but the game is going toward a better future so i don't understand how this is relevant in year 2.
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2 RepliesDestiny is the best game ever hands down.
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The reef is free They aren't making us pay for anything extra It wasn't tests at launch so they delayed it
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Well now destiny has more story missions 2 raids and an ARENA SO HA
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Its Star Wars. Darth Bungie and his lvl32 hive DLC stormtroopers are taking over the gaming galaxy. Remember halo? I am your father!! The non-DLC rebels are now banned from certain parts of the galaxy every week and our numbers dwindle. The skilful 360 no-scope rocket jumping Jedi's are nowhere to be found. The Bungie/Microsoft empire has created a dark side that is more powerful than you can possibly imagine. We need a new hope. It's f**king Star Wars.
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1 ReplyEdited by JisusDegs: 11/9/2014 11:10:46 AMI totally agree, the game is fun and I spent a lot of hours in it, but honestly the lack of content in this game with almost 7 years of development and such a talented development team on his back is unbelievable. Ok, the game is replayable a lot, but its all focused on looting better equipment, nothing more, if it wasn't for this I would have stopped playing it long ago, and surely we can't say the story missions would be replayable at all: story doesen't exist in this game, it'a all confused and barely touched. I don't know what are Bungie and Activision future plans for Destiny, but even if initially I wanted to buy all the upcoming content for the game and maybe buy a next gen version of it (I'm playing on ps3), now it's very unlikely to happen. My expectations were high, I've always been a big fan of the Halo series, and I was expecting the biggest game with the biggest story of all the times from Bungie, but it's not the game I was hoping for. Anyway, it's not my intention to hurt people who worked on this title, so even if I don't agree with your policy, I still respect your work.
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Is anyone sick of all the negative commentary on this forum? Are you sick of hearing all of the bs that Bungie didn't give us enough content? Well I for one am. If you don't like the game, trade it in. Stop playing it. Also, do all of us a favor, jump off the nearest cliff or skyscraper. Maybe all of you just need a little cheese? Your whining is that of an immature nature. Stop complaining. Life is wonderful. If life sucks for you, find a way to make it better. Get out of the house and experience something other than a video game. Pick up a book. Anything. Find some inner peace. Or if you'd really like to see some change, find a way to do it constructively. Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - The Buddha
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Totally bumped. Only thing for me to do is help, or level junk exotic weaponry. Ive burnt this gameout, an truth be told it wasnt even 4 month of lore an content. WEAKNESS . So for a ten year plan, ummm make 20 more games. Weak, pathetic, bullshit
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Edited by Sumo: 1/22/2015 10:17:51 PM
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The hypocrisy is that when Capcom did this (Yes Remember?) there was a total shit-storm about it and they got nailed for it. But when bungie does it they get a freebie because......? [b]Not sure how anyone is supposed to justify this and rationalize these business practices and maintain their sanity.[/b]
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Bungievision don't give a sheeit... and the sheeple who need to read this won't.
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6 RepliesSkyrim: Offline Destiny: Repetitive but great to play if you have friends Also, people pay Blizzard $15 a month for WoW, and Bungie isn't allowed to hold some stuff back for DLC? GTFO
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1 ReplyThat's a good post, you have done a lot of homework. But I'm not sure what your point is. Destiny is not a very good game. Definitely not as good as Skyrim. Yeah I think that is generally accepted. Even by people like me who love the game and have spent several hundred hours playing it. Even more hours than playing Skyrim. :) It's a shame, but it's just not a great game. I've learned to accept that. ( I still have a lot of fun in it ) Everyone turns out a turkey once in a while.
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So you're saying no other game company cuts content? There are hundreds if not thousands if games that have full detailed and textured content cut from the game. Plus, I can think of several other games that were rip offs. Destiny was well worth $60
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Excellent post. Couldn't agree more. The only thing I would add would be a comparison to the two Activision sponsored games that were released in close succession: Destiny and AW. Whether you like CoD or not it is clear that AW is much more thoroughly developed game and it came from a new developer (in terms of developing CoD). Destiny was supposed to be Bungie's new baby (the old one being Halo, obviously), but it failed in every meaningful aspect outside of the shooting/combat mechanics and graphics. AW on the other hand delivers a meaningful plot with well written scripts and actors that sound like they aren't just reading lines off a script. Playing both campaigns I can honestly say that AW's was far far more interesting (although Destiny doesn't offer much competition). What I'm getting at is, if this was all Activision's fault why isn't AW getting the same criticisms that Destiny has? My thoughts- Bungie isn't the innocent little developer they claim to be, and Activision isn't choking them like some on here would lead you to believe. Bungie is equally, if not more responsible for the utter failure that is Destiny. Obviously, Bungie will always make enough to keep producing given their reputation with Halo, but they will not see the sales number of Halo's sequels nor the sales numbers of this Destiny again. IMO, Bungie needs to face this head on. They need to over impress us with the DLC just as much as they under impressed us with the "full" game. Given the massive disappointment I doubt they can or even want to accomplish this. I honestly don't feel like Bungie is the same fan-driven developer that made Halo. I'm getting the vibe that the lure of money has corrupted them, and Destiny has set a precedent of what their future games will be like.
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Edited by InfamousPewPew: 11/10/2014 4:46:10 AMI only read the beginning because the rest would be useless to read. But just because they show it doesn't mean it was supposed to be released on the day of Destiny's release. No one seems to get it. So they complain. Go back to CoD please <3
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Totally agree, i hope all of bungies staff quit, i don't want them making any more money from this giant turd of a game.
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i agree with this its also dispise the fact that PS3 users get 1 aditional DLC ane early use of content so y not give content to all platforms insted of 1 or 2 this is what pisses me off about destiny
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Thinking Bungie had anything to do with it is the funny part.
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I don't care.
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6 RepliesI agree, they did a lousy job. But its hard to have loads of stuff (Skyrim) while keeping the online. That would like melt your console lol
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1 ReplyMany games have cut content on them, especially FPS games who can use that cut content as DLC. This isn't a new trend, it's been going on like this for several years. It's a way for the business corporation to make more profit. Quit acting like Destiny is terrible because of "cut content."
