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Edited by BNGHelp3:
11/5/2014 6:10:28 PM
83
Explioting the game vs smart tactics?
Dear Bungie,
At long last I am turning to you in hopes of alleviating various concerns within the game that are soon to tear our clan apart. We are a clan that prides ourselves on playing the game legitimately without utilizing the large amount of exploits that are currently being used today. Some of these are evident such as pushing Atheon off the map as they have been publicly denounced by the Bungie team and attempted to be patched. Others such as pushing the Templar off the map are obvious simply because they fall within the same spirit of those already denounced. We as a clan have already kicked and banned several members for pushing these issues of exploiting the game, but there have arisen several concerns about our tactics to date. Here are some examples of things that we have done and some that we have seen other players do:
1. When the Templar summons it's legions all players get to a hiding spot and simply wait for the legions to despawn before returning to their positions to guard the confluxes. (Spirit Bloom chest cave and pillar located just across from it)
2. On the nightfall moon strike, using the second room back to snipe Phogoth as the other two players move up and back hitting him with rocket attacks then retreating back (This tactic is something that is often done on every nightfall strike)
3. There is an area behind a rock at the Nexus that if you stay behind and duck out on occasion to fire on the Nexus, none of the spawning Vex can get to you.
4. If you stay up top at the Nexus and one person watches for the spawning Minotaur coming from the rear, the other two Guardians can peek over the ledge and attack the Nexus with little danger.
5. On hard mode in the VoG, five Guardians stay up top at the spawn point to snipe oracles and attack the Templar while one Guardian goes down below to destroy the two back oracles, kill the Harpies, and take down the Templar's shield.
6. People leaving the fireteam during the nightfall strike after death in order to respawn back in alive.
7. Hiding under the ramps during the boss stage of the Mars nightfall strike.
These questions constitute just a few of the questionable items, but it remains to be argued whether some of these are outright cheats or simply smart tactical use of the map layout. Some of these are even stranger when they have appeared to have been dealt with in one area but not the other, such as the spawning in dead in the VoG but not in the nightfall strikes.
We're looking for a little guidance from the source in an effort to define whether some tactics can be used or not within a clan that is desperately trying to not be the ones who are accomplishing victory through "cheats". We know it takes time to patch these things, but I can't tell you how detrimental it is to your game to see unskilled or uncommitted players stealing save points from other so that they can huddle in the back of a room as someone pushes the boss off the map and walks away bragging about how they have some of the most coveted gear available. We understand this is just a video game, but that doesn't change the fact that it truly takes away from the experience.
In closing I'd just like to say that we truly enjoy the game and hope for it to evolve into something monumental.
Best Regards,
Shiv
English
#feedback
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This is why i always shoot the vex in the head and hive in the feet. Got to do it properly and the hardest way possible
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4 RepliesEdited by cusman: 11/8/2014 7:51:07 PMNightfall have lot of 1-hit kills, no revive countdown, and team wipe leading you back to orbit. This encourages people to find safe ways to whittle down the too much health bosses, while avoiding most of the mob combat. There are multiple ways to cheese the situation in your favor and nullify all the risks. Destiny isn't a game of skill. It is a game of strategy, coordination, and patience. If you think its about skill, try playing 3 levels down, using nothing but Rare / Exotic armor and weapons, no headsets when playing with others, and don't use cover of any kind. Then pat yourself on the back for playing the "legit" way, whatever the F that is.
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15 RepliesSome of theses "exploits" are the only way solo players like me can beat nightfall etc. stop being so evangelical and grow up, it's a video game, you better hold on to something now when I rock your world, "you are not really a guardian" it's a game, you live in this world and school is real. Leave people alone to play the way they want because whining like this is what gets Bungie fixing things best left alone. By the way, if you and your muckers are falling out over how to play a video game you need to move on.
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1 ReplyEdited by Septive: 11/8/2014 11:47:04 PMI just want to say this. The simple truth is that smart game tactics is to find and exploit the game anyway you can. Humans are prone to finding the easy way out. It is the way we are. I'm sure someone has already said this but when you find an enemies weakness you exploit it you don't just sit there and look at it. Exploiting a game is smart tactics.
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Man. Exploits huh? Lmfao.
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2 RepliesTo the people wondering if these are tactics or exploits, grow up. Get out your houses and experience life for once before you die in front of your monitor all alone. You have no idea about what you are asking. What most people playing the game consider tactics to beating a level, you think of it as an exploit. In this list there is only one, #6 that is considered an exploit. The others are what the majority consider plying smart. Quit trying to ask the devs permission on how to play they game they made for everyone to experience. This post is the perfect example of the difference between a book smart person, and someone that is street smart.
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So why does it matter what people do. And if a lower level person ask for your help, I bet you will tell them hide in a spot or you will it's survival. If a player finds some in game then why punish them. Here's the dumbest solution "VOG let's detain the ones who aren't teleported". How bout fix ya glitches of if all oracles have been shot but you succumbed to oracles.
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Most of these are in the game intentionally, such as the Minotaur spawn on the Venus strike, the Shrieker spawn on Phogoth, and the crates on the Mars strike. These give solo players a better shot at completing the strikes alone, and help lower levels work together to complete things like Nightfall that have little margin for error. You don't have to use them if you want more of a challenge. Also, nobody cares about your clan.
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6 RepliesMap layouts are just that. Use them. Now game mechanics are a little more questionable. Examples, the ledge on the nexus. If you can consistently kill the spawning minotaur which was obviously put their to push you off the ledge then your just using the map IMO. But hiding from the tenplars legions and pushing him off are just exploiting game mechanics. Thats my view.
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2 RepliesI agree pushing Atheon off is bad, but the strike exploits are fine. As for the legions, they could simply remove the timer and that would be fixed.
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7 RepliesQuotes from Luke Smith lead designer on the Vault of Glass Raid. [url=http://tmi.kotaku.com/q-a-the-lead-designer-of-destinys-vault-of-glass-1647227058]Q&A: The Lead Designer of Destiny's Vault of Glass[/url] "And I would imagine that's something that we'll be addressing in the near future to ensure that the templar is playing at his appropriate difficulty where the adds aren't something that we let you trivialize and ignore." "Yeah, we're going to ensure that the encounters are playing and being beaten, where you have to account for the challenges that we've put in them. " 1) Hiding in the spirit bloom chest room trivializes the Templars legions. [b]Fix, add kill zone to chest area that is removed when Templar is destroyed.[/b] 2) Sniping Oracles from the spawn point trivializes the adds in the Templar fight. [b]Fix, add invisible wall that prevents shooting from spawn point to Templar arena.[/b] 3) Pushing Templar or Atheon off edge trivializes adds and the puzzles. [b]Fix, teleport boss to start point if they go below maps death height.[/b] Adding credibility to the Raid will immortalize it in gaming history. There are already clans dedicated to helping gamers struggling with the challenge. No one becomes Legend when tying your own shoelace is more difficult than raiding.
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2 RepliesIt is all tactics. If you are in a battle and discover a weak point in an enemy, you exploit the shit out of that weak point.
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1 ReplyThe real question isn't, cheat or no cheat, it's challenge or no challenge. Having a competitive nature is a desirable trait. You will always prosper more in life with that attitude. The human race advances on competition whether it's cooperative or competitive. For the competitive mind, you want to walk a highwire without a safety net or climb a mountain freestyle. Pushing the Templar, hiding from legions, sniping from above; those are safety nets. As long as those safe options exist, the sense of accomplishment will never be fulfilled. Most people are content with their lot in life or, they're not content but, believe they are entitled to have everything handed to them. From Luke Smith's interview, it appears his team wants to provide the competitive minded a worthy test. It's unlikely this will come to fruition. This is a business dictated by profit, and the majority of consumers are content with their lot in life.
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2 RepliesShut up Meg, Let the people play how the want, people use these exploits because they have played these strikes/raid numerous times legitimately, and are tired of them.
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4 RepliesWow, you must think your clan is so special because they don't use these "exploits" . Some of the things you mentioned should not be considered exploits at all, like hiding under the ramp during the mars strike and the ledge at the nexus. They are simply strategic ways of completing it. Idk why you even care about these since your clan is so perfect and doesn't do any of them. It doesn't effect your game experience in any way so stop ruining it for others who choose to do it this way.
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4 RepliesEdited by CorinthianRed: 11/8/2014 8:27:40 AMPersonally speaking, on numbers six and seven, a lot of the nightfall strikes are unreasonably hard without exploits, but the exploits also present the player with no risk. I would say add a minor amount of risk to them as opposed to taking them out entirely. To get whats on my mind out of the way first i'm going to get my disrespectful response out first. Stop judging other people for the way they play, if you want to play and play legitimately thats fine. And if you ever want, I'd love to get in on that. But not everyone wants to spend an agonizing 4 and a half hours of failing and retrying and failing and retrying because thats ruins the game for a lot of players the same way people DEMANDING you push the templar off does for you. Not everyone is good, not everyone is clutch. some people have bad connections and can't do anything about it, and I'm tired of hearing these arguments where people basically say screw those people who get kicked to orbit do to circumstances outside their control. Let them play how they're going to play, and play how you're going to play, but don't force your ideals and standards onto others. It's condescending and entirely elitist.
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1 ReplyI hated how when I was doing nexus strike on nightfall with void burn, only level 27, still did ok though, both others died, and I was running towards them, I got disconnected, and we had to reset. The boss only had the tiniest sliver of health too. I kept having disconnections, so they had to exploit so they wouldn't die and leave it all to me only for me to disconnect. That sucked.
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1 ReplyThis kills any challenge that was present if any :l Some ppl just don't like challenges or like easy mode on everything. I prefer challenges though, hiding in a room or behind something and killing predictable ai is mind numbingly boring and don't see how players feel accomplished doing that ._.
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3 RepliesIs it okay to use steroids as an advantage in sports? Can a pitcher scuff a baseball so it slides off a hitters bat? Baseball is just a game, right? How about PvP in any game? Is it ok if you lose to someone who modified their save file to get a damage bonus? Modifying your save file sounds creative to me. What line do you set for when it's cheating and when it's just tactics?
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8 RepliesI want someone in here to say they never exploited the game mechanics to beat the Phogoth nightfall. If you say you didn't, you're a liar. No fireteam could survive the Sword of Crota room with arc burn on. The fact of the matter is this: some things on this game are completely impossible to do by "playing fair." Exploiting the "invisible fence" of enemies is just as bad as exploiting Atheon's need to get away from grenades (even though beating Atheon legitimately is not impossible at all).
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Edited by PVBeachin: 11/8/2014 2:30:57 AMOne example of smart tactics, is on the strike Cerberus Vae, when the tank comes, take out all enemies on the battlefield, then dash over towards the road leading to the next area, and there should be a wall on the right, from the perspective of you going towards the road, and you can circle around the wall and put it between you and the tanks cannon, while you can shoot its critical point, but you have to watch out for the splash damage and curving missiles though.
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2 RepliesUnless your using some thrid party mathod to get a advantage any ingame mechanic can be rightfully used untill changed pushing even tho not though of by bungie is a exploit which isnt a bad thing alot of games actually inprove when exploits are used for alot of players. there is no such thing as working hard for gear in this game when its all based on the luck of the draw With no trade system or econmany if they just gave half of the player base 10 exotic engrams it wouldnt effect much no item is sacred or in anycase really a game changer we fight for the light not for story or anything but some loot we really want. And after completing some task 50 times and not obtain ur goal you start not caring the method in which you obtain it
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1 ReplySo basically you dont want anyone taking cover? Okay, got it.
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2 RepliesOh, but this is not players' fault. If the game has so many flaws the proper term to describe them is not "cheater", but "clever".
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3 RepliesIt's not exploiting it's playing smart. Think about it with such a broken rng system. Why play the way they want us to play wen in the end u don't get anything and the one person that joins in at the last minute gets an exotic. How about maybe getting boss engrams or maybe if they didn't lower the drop rate. How about the fact that they don't listen to anything that the community has to say, or the fact that they keep beating around the Bush about everything. Don't get it twisted I play and I play a lot and I'll keep playing but ones destiny 2 comes out I'm done till I know fo sure it's worth it. I'm sorry I went on a rant but play smart not hard. Oh and if u don't wanna play and use these so called "exploits" then good for u don't b*tch about how others play.
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2 RepliesEdited by Legend of Jordy: 11/7/2014 8:47:31 AM[b]There are more important issues to deal with at this moment.[/b] If their next move is fixing each exploit that makes certain activities worth doing, then that leaves too many players with nothing to do. The game is slowly dying, stomping out the small flame that's left is the worst idea. The only reason why I do Nightfall is because it is doable and rewarding for the amount of time spent. It is not fair that players get their fill with exploits then demand it to be repaired before others can reward themselves with the exploit. I understand the Templar push takes away from the Raid, but the raid has so many other issues to fix right now. That should be the last bug to fix on their list, not the first. I'm so disappointed in this thread, it's the last thing I want to see. Please, please put your priorities straight. These exploits are to be the last of the current bug fixes. [b]DO NOT fix the exploits before you fix the game.[/b]
