Part of the random factor needs to be removed from VoG loot. Raid gear is the ONLY way to hit level 30. You can ONLY hit level 30 from VoG. You need to be level 30 to run the VoG hard and the new DLC raid. BUT you can run the raid multiple times and get NO RAID GEAR. It's absurd. I've run 5 VoGs and two of my characters are 30. Other members of my group have run 5 or 6 times and don't have a single piece of raid armor. You can only run the raid once/week/character.... so there's perhaps only 4 more runs before the rest of my group gets left behind on the DLC. Guarantee ONE raid armor drop per run. Leave the choice of that piece up to the RNG. At least then people have a guaranteed 1 in 3 shot at getting something to level up. OR guarantee one raid armor or weapon. Then at least people wouldn't feel ripped off. Or drop the once/week limit. I think running the VoG three times is enough to justify the jump from 29 to 30. 5 or 6 for sure. The fact that you can run it 5 or 6 times and get nothing but shards and energy - that's broken. You can get shards and energy for doing a 30 second public event that occurs every 30 minutes. People are running the HARDEST CONTENT IN THE GAME... so hard you thought we'd need a week to finish it, and get nothing?? I am afraid that members of my small group are getting so frustrated that they'll quit playing before we get to the point where we're running the raid on Hard.

.....I have no idea how to read this graph [spoiler]I feel stupid[/spoiler]

I'm just confused on when exactly it is that we get rewarded for effort rather than blind luck. Its nearly useless trying to do anything in this game when only 5% of the playerbase completing the raid actually gets something out of it. Raid specific emblem drops that you can use and save up to buy raid gear from a raid vendor. Don't make it so you can buy a gear piece with one emblem but after 3-4 raid clears you have enough for like ONE piece atleast.

Loot Table: Ascendant Shards Ascendant Energy Chatterwhite That is all.

I've done the vault 6 times now ... but all I see is shards, energy and chatterwhite. ... Im starting to think loot is not random.

based on every time I've completed VoG, the only thing on Atheon's loot table is Chatterwhite. Seen others get other stuff, but I'm beginning to think Bungie hardcoded Atheon to only give me Chatterwhite. (only half joking)

I have a theory: The first time you run through the VoG, the[u] [b]likelihood[/b][/u] of receiving raid armour is far greater than on subsequent runs. First time I ran it I got the gloves. 8-9 times later, nothing. A lot of the guys I run it with have similar experiences too, and pretty much everytime we've taken a new guy through, guess what? He gets armour.... Usually gloves for the Warlocks and boots for Titans in my experience.... What do you think? Edit: Just to clarify, I'm not talking about weapons.... I've gotten nearly all the weapons myself. I mean armour. You know, the only way of getting to level 30. Now a lot of people have had the same experience, so I definitely think you have a [b]higher chance of rolling for armour your first time than any other time. [/b]It's a method that drug dealers use! You can have your first for free, then you'll keep coming back for more :') And then of course, there's the fact that if you get to level 30, 'til the DLC drops, you're pretty much done right? There wouldn't be much point logging in every day.... And we all know how much they like to slow your progress with grinding/farming upgrade materials and how much artificial depth they like to add to Destiny. It's all based on chance of course, so I'm not saying you're guaranteed armour your first run.... Just that the chance is increased. It could be completely in my head at the same time of course. Just a theory of mine. [spoiler]Let's say, for instance, on a normal run you have a 20% chance of getting a weapon from the various drop locations and only a 10% chance of getting armour yeah? My theory is that, during your first run through, the armour receives a buffed drop rate and roll chance. So instead of being 10%, it's buffed to around 30-40%. [b]This means that while it's entirely possible not to get armour at all on the first run, it's a lot more likely.[/b] (These aren't actual stats; just a quick example) Again, it's entirely speculation, but that's my take on it anyway.[/spoiler]

Is getting the helm confirmed only on hard atheon?

I'm curious if the normal weapons (VoC, Epilogue, Found Verdict, ect) actually drop on hard or if it's people getting their normal run loot by doing hard first. Also I've never seen the normal ship drop and assumed it wasn't in the game or at least available as a drop currently. Never seen someone get an exotic after Templar on either difficulty. Also never seen Praetorian Foil drop on normal.

hmmm, not sure if this table is entirely correct. I'm pretty sure that my vision of confluence dropped from killing the templar on normal, and I was under the impression that the foil could only be obtained in hard mode. Could be wrong though.

You can actually get boots out of the first chest.

The set raid gear has lost many people who would probably still be playing but have simply given up due to the absurd lack of armour drops in the raid. Every week the same sniper rifle or chatterwhite. Once you have obtained an item from the raid it should not give it you again on that character.