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Edited by DeeJ:
10/28/2014 3:38:45 PM
3117
Thoughts and Opinions about Atheon's Revenge.
So, the update just went live. Atheon can no longer be pushed off his platform. He'll also select people at random to be thrown across time. He's a real bastard, eh?
I talked a lot to the developers about your opinions on the matter. You don't want to be selected at random. You want to choose who gets to fetch the Relic under fire from those nasty Oracles. I spoke on your behalf. Your voice was heard. We discussed your concerns.
I even said "Why not just change Hard Mode and leave Easy Mode alone?"
I was told "The Raid is never supposed to be easy."
At that point, I recalled all the times I stood and delivered the line "...the most challenging encounter we've ever created." It was hard to disagree. As a veteran of Cairo Station on Legendary in Halo, I had to admit that I had been carried through the Raid like luggage assigned to my clan. I did my own carrying later, but carrying had been done.
This is an activity that was designed to be undertaken by a hardcore team that is ready and willing to adapt and improvise to changing battle conditions. Like the moment when the Templar shields random players, the Final Boss was supposed to be extremely dangerous. While we've been working on some of the other things for which you've been asking (i.e. better exotics, voice chat in matchmaking, more bounties), the designers who made the Raid have plugged the holes that you showed them.
If you got in on the ground floor of this thing, we thank you. If you understand the mechanics for how to beat Atheon, it's still a thing you can teach your friends. If you're all up to the challenge, the Raid is waiting for you.
Let's talk about it. Please sound off in this thread, and know that I'll be reading.
English
#Destiny
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Edited by VanzSr: 10/28/2014 5:48:33 PMThe biggest problem is that we are all "chasing the rainbow" now. When you see a rainbow as a kid you may want to run to the base of it and be in the colored light. Wouldn't that be awesome. You may even run after it, but eventually you grow up and realize that you are never going to get there. Whenever you get close the end moves away. Even if there is a damn leprechaun there you are never going to get the pot of gold. Well Bungie is that damn leprechaun, and we are starting to grow up. If you don't like the way the raid is going fix it in the next one stop screwing us all over by changing the rules all the time. I have a 10 year old son that hates to lose so whenever he is he changes the rules. Grow up bungie! sometimes you lose, that is what makes it a game. Remember we all bought a game. If we choose to do it the easy way we should be able to, if we want the challenge is there. That is what makes it a game.
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As someone that disliked Halo... Love everything you guys are doing. Keep up the awesome work, more events, and fixing exploits. I'm happy Atheon will actually randomly teleport people now as the raid was beginning to get a bit silly and 2 dimensional, i'm sure this will "shake" things up a bit. Very glad I took a chance on a Halo developer, despite not liking everything they've done previously.
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1 ReplyFine with the changes as long as you fix reward system, token system for raid weps (minus vex) . token system for armor pieces. I will not do the raid on hard until i know for sure I can get or work towards a reward. Why would I spend hours for just shards.. No thanks bungie. The fun factor is gone from the raid so sad :(
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Apparently Atheon can still be pushed off the ledge. So all this did was fix who gets teleported.
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I have no problem with this other than it wasn't like this from the beginning. If this is what you intended and the way you wanted it at launch, then it should have been. If it had always been like this, no one would be complaining. I realize nothing can be done about it now, just know that everything you "fix" always makes people wonder why it wasn't like that at launch. You had ample time and a huge beta testing group to knock out a bunch of the problems you're fixing now (auto rifles for starters). I love the game, it's just frustrating the way you're handling things.
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Well spoken DeeJ, and looking forward to taking on Atheon's new little challenge :p though he is still going to die.
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1 ReplyIm don't particularly care about who gets teleported where. What annoys me is that you made a major design change to a raid encounter two months after it was released. Also, the rewards seem kinda lackluster for the most challenging aspect in this game. Granted, the normal mode is actually easy with upgraded items and cheesing breaks everything... But assuming someone does the hard mode like it was supposed to be done, the rewards are bad.
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I think the glitch should have been fixed yes, but changing mechanics is plane foolishness. It's basically saying well everyone has already done it 15 times let's mix it up for them. That is far from what we want.... If you wanted to fix anything in this patch, it should have been loot from the raid or the exotic gun overhaul we have been ever so patiently waiting for the last month and a half. When I say fix the loot from the raid I mean, quit giving me the same shader ship class item and sparrow every time I do it. I personally have done the raid around 10 or 11 times and have yet to get a single piece of armor. I have over 80 ascendant shards and energies because it appears that is all your raid has to offer for loot. It seems pointless now to even do the raid anymore. Why waist hours to never see benefits? I have raided for years in WoW, with the same concept clear content get loot. Well, I never once cleared a raid for a month straight and not gotten one single weapon or armor piece. Oh well I guess blizzard doesn't know what they are doing with their millions of subscribers....
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Another big F U from Bungie. "Play the game the way you want to play it while we micromanage every single little detail within your gameverse". The raid needs raid tokens and option to purchase raid gear. I was lucky and got level 30 on my Titan, but my crew is getting SCREWED HARD by RNG. Where is the incentive to play if every encounter is random and SO unrewarding? I've personally received 4 aspects of glass and 3 time breakers. That's some of the most horse shit loot possible. 3 hour hard mode runs for a legendary loading screen? Really?? Raiding just ain't worth it for the small chance at decent rewards and the high chance of shotty crap loot.
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I understand why The raid was fixed. It's gonna be freakin hard now, but it will teach you how to deal with chaotic situations. We'll adapt.
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11 RepliesMy problem is that the rewards don't match the difficulty, especially on hard mode. Bug fixes (Aetheon/Templar push) I get. But artificially inflating the difficulty while keeping the rewards random, and drop rates abysmal, just makes the experience seem like a waste of time.
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1 ReplyI'm just being honest here so take it with a grain Bungie. Your raid is not that hard! Sure at first when it was new it was difficult, but once players learned what needed to be done the difficulty dropped dramatically. It doesn't matter if you intended Atheon to choose random people because its to late in the Raid's life for your fans to believe it. I for one cannot and will not believe that Bungie changed this because that's what they originally intended. Since it's so late in the Raid's life span the only reasonable explanation for this patch is that Bungie is trying to create a false sense of difficulty to prolong the Raid's life due to lack of content ( I have enough chatter white for 20 characters...). What disappoints me the most is that Bungie chooses to patch non-game breaking issues before the actual game breaking issues (yes the cheese needed to be addressed, I'm not talking about that). What about the Pretorian's instant health regeneration? What about Atheon only teleporting two people in to the gate? These are some game breaking issues that need to be addressed, but go a head and continue to patch stupid caves and continue to give your fans a false sense of difficulty, it's your game after all... I personally think that Bungie is selling out, but hay who am I right. I do like Bungie's game but my friends are slowly leaving because of Bungie's poor micromanagement and even I am getting tired of it. Right now I'm just happy that other games I want to play are coming out.
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There seems to be a major buff on the enemies 4 void damage rockets to take down a normal pretorian? I full clip of atheons epiloque to drop a hobgoblin? Anyone else feeling this. And nevermind the constant booting.
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Abit off topic but soloing left side portal on hard mode VoG like a boss xD just thought I'd get that out there :p lol
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My thoughts... The raid should not have been touched after it was released. Everyone gets an equal chance to play with the RNG gods and the community finds and advertises the best/quickest/easiest/most enjoyable/most challenging (delete as appropriate) ways of getting through it. Sure, they will identify areas that the devs didn't anticipate as they (the devs) probably always played it the way it was written to be beaten. That's not a problem. They should simply take what they learned from this first raid and apply it to the next one. Make sure that platforms they don't intend us to use are out of reach, make sure bumpers are added to drop off areas, do random stuff to random players etc, but do it in the next raid. By changing the rules and the difficulty level, those of us who are late to the party are disadvantaged. That's our own tough luck, but not everyone is able to spend every hour of every day playing Destiny and the more casual, but loyal, gamer is made to feel like they're being punished because the community got together and figured out how to beat the raid more quickly than the devs intended. The raid wasn't fundamentally broken, players kept coming back to it and there was support in the community for us latecomers, but I fear that constant meddling in the mechanics of the raid simply raises the pain barrier without raising the reward and that will ultimately lead to fewer and fewer participants.
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Edited by Jeff: 10/28/2014 5:45:43 PMSo the bugs in the Vault of Glass are meant to make it harder and not bugs? --Only 2 people teleporting into the timestream, enemies come through the portal, times when Atheon regains health, coming back through the portal with super's not working and a couple others.-- These were meant to be there? Or is this broken and the devs only nerf guns and provide random teleports. Not fix the thorn & bad juju first, nerf the guns first. Did you tell the devs they're digging a hole? Did you tell the devs that the players (that are still here) are sort of angry and we should work on some things beneficial to them? When you say i.e. better exotics, does that mean existing or new exotics? When you say more bouties, does that mean space or new bounties?
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who ever said it was easy? it was still hard at first, but over time My teams and I got the hang of it. I still get into raid parties and someone has never done VOG before or has never done the shield before and we go through many trail runs to beat the raid. To beat Atheon just requires communication.
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Buff my thorn ;(
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It's fine. Atheon isn't the toughest fight in the raid, though.
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13 RepliesSo... my question is. Why was the "cheese" of pushing Atheon off not fixed a long time ago when it was discovered? If you want this to be the hardest experience, then why, when the community discovered a way to by-pass that, was it not fixed much, much sooner? You now have people running around with the hard mode gear who have done nothing to deserve it. The issue was recognised 3 weeks ago, why did it take that long to provide a fix??
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What about the other glitches in Atheon's fight? When will those get fixed?
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2 RepliesJust a thought... When clans have got themselves together and are once again destroying the VoG in around 30 minutes.... What will Bungie do then?? Melee only? Sorry but your guns give you too many options.. you can only slap Atheon now!
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Edited by Blazko: 10/28/2014 5:44:28 PMI have put a solid 9 or 10 days worth of time into this game. I have done a bunch of raids and really "no lifed" this game. I love it. I am worried about one simple thing, and it's not about the difficulty of the raid, it's about the randomness of it. Not the RNG, I'm talking about how making strategies is not possible if most things are random. The random teleports make it difficult for people to know what there doing. This update will make it hard for people who have never done it, simply because of the steep learning curve the atheon fight has. I can easily tell someone "shot the hobgoblins so they enter there safety mode, then focus on the oracles" it's harder to be on the other side of the portal fighting off supplicants while also trying to tell a friend who has never done the raid how to handle the relic. I'm going to slow down on helping people I don't know anymore, I'm just going to go through it with people I know can handle themselves with ease. That is all my input on the subject. If you are reading this, thanks for post on the subject and keep up the good work!
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1 ReplyPatching a boss to make him harder after most players have all the incentive to fight him? lol. What if World of Warcraft made the bosses easy then ramped up the difficulty after everyone has all the loot? Get with it bungie.
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Edited by Razzupaltuff: 10/28/2014 5:44:40 PMI welcome the fixes. You didn't fix everything though. The Templar can still be pushed off the cliff from its initial position during the phase where he is to be destroyed.
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Edited by BR1M570N3: 10/28/2014 5:52:48 PMI'm all for having a steep skill requirement as an obstacle to completing the raid, but for some of us working stiffs with wives, kids, and other real priorities, getting schedules to mesh is still by far the hardest aspect of the raid. It's frustrating to have an atheon checkpoint go to waste because my friends all have competing real life priorities just like I do. (Don't even bother mentioning playing with randoms. They're too... random.) As it stands now, for me - and I can't imagine I'm alone in this - the stars need to be in perfect alignment just to be able to have the opportunity to set foot in the vault let alone complete it. Instead of a complete weekly reset, why not just have a week-long cooldown timer on characters to be able to get loot drops? Let us carry our progress over from week to week. It would be far less frustrating than watching another week go by and having to start over at the beginning only to not be able to get a team back together to finish. I think it's problematic when schedule becomes the rate limiting factor to progress in a game, rather than skill. The random teleportation just compounds things. I had gotten to the point where I could run a three man team in the main room to keep the portals open with no problem, but I have no idea what to do inside the portals or what to do with the relic. That was just never my job. My job was on the outside, and I was pretty good at that, and felt like a valued member of the team. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem learning different roles in the vault, but it would be nice to not have to go through the beginning parts every week just to *maybe* have a chance at getting a team together for Atheon later.
