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Edited by DeeJ:
10/28/2014 3:38:45 PM
3117
Thoughts and Opinions about Atheon's Revenge.
So, the update just went live. Atheon can no longer be pushed off his platform. He'll also select people at random to be thrown across time. He's a real bastard, eh?
I talked a lot to the developers about your opinions on the matter. You don't want to be selected at random. You want to choose who gets to fetch the Relic under fire from those nasty Oracles. I spoke on your behalf. Your voice was heard. We discussed your concerns.
I even said "Why not just change Hard Mode and leave Easy Mode alone?"
I was told "The Raid is never supposed to be easy."
At that point, I recalled all the times I stood and delivered the line "...the most challenging encounter we've ever created." It was hard to disagree. As a veteran of Cairo Station on Legendary in Halo, I had to admit that I had been carried through the Raid like luggage assigned to my clan. I did my own carrying later, but carrying had been done.
This is an activity that was designed to be undertaken by a hardcore team that is ready and willing to adapt and improvise to changing battle conditions. Like the moment when the Templar shields random players, the Final Boss was supposed to be extremely dangerous. While we've been working on some of the other things for which you've been asking (i.e. better exotics, voice chat in matchmaking, more bounties), the designers who made the Raid have plugged the holes that you showed them.
If you got in on the ground floor of this thing, we thank you. If you understand the mechanics for how to beat Atheon, it's still a thing you can teach your friends. If you're all up to the challenge, the Raid is waiting for you.
Let's talk about it. Please sound off in this thread, and know that I'll be reading.
English
#Destiny
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It doesn't really matter what we think because: 1) your holier than thou devs will do what THEY want, not what your customers that pay their salary want. When a snooty chef tells me I have to eat his food a certain way, guess what I do. Correct, I don't eat his food period. 2 weeks and this game is history. 2) no one can play now anyway because you've let loose the monkeys and weasels. If you stay connected for more than 5 minutes now, count yourself lucky.
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1 ReplyO thanks for buffing Thorn and Bad Ju.....wait OK. Well at least you added chat to....no. Maybe we got match making for...no not that either huh.... O I see, you ignored us and did what you wanted. Thanks for that.
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Still waiting on completed weapons balances and improvement of certain exotics. I can understand however, that guns in a FPS wouldn't really be a paramount concern. Please take your time, well all just continue to use Suros and VoC.
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1 ReplyAll the anger in this thread is turning me on
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Of course taking away strategy is going to make it harder. But WHY take away strategy? If you want to make it harder why not take away the unlimited super after guardians make their own fate? Better yet here's a few suggestions. 1. Give atheon more health. 2. Spawn in more supplicants/minotaurs/hobs really just more enemies for the non-teleported guardians to deal with. 3. Spawn in the occasional random oracle while fighting atheon. 4. Make it so all three guardians have to open the portal instead of one. 5. Have it so the relic holder cannot shoot his super at atheon (taking a lot of health from him.) 6. As mentioned above, take away the unlimited super after guardians fate. 7. Make the crit spot on atheon smaller Really any of these would be a better choice then taking away the final boss strategy. Put up baby bumpers for atheon, fine, but take away the fun in creating a staretgy? Not cool guys. Not. Cool.
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So much crying on these forums. I am up for a new Atheon challenge.
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So basically the customer can go have relations with him/herself? Hmmm, while I like your game, I'm wondering if the DLC will be worth my money when Bungie obviously doesn't care what the player wants. I picture a room of Comic Book Guys from the Simpsons sitting around deciding the fate of players. Well, Call of Duty comes out soon. So, I've got that to look forward to. So go ahead, have your pure perfect game that players will flee as if it were the Darkness.
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I'm glad the cheezing of a raid boss got fixed. Was it the most important thing to be updated? Probably not, but it was probably an easy fix to program in. Do I, for one second, believe that it was a bug? Nope. I think that programmers didn't even consider the option that gamers wouldn't want to be legit in the way they killed the boss. The whole point of the raid is to test yourself and show that you're good enough to beat it... right? I agree that the Raid should be hard. I like that the first people who did it spent HOURS doing it. Why? Because it introduces a part of Destiny that's hard, unknown, and you have to figure it out for yourself. Yay for using your brain meats! It adds a layer to the gameplay and the lore that Destiny previously didn't have. And being able to cheeze THE boss of such a raid forces those extra components to disappear. However, I think the real things that need to be given top priority within Destiny are the connection errors. That prevents a lot of people from playing, and while people moan and complain about little things like the RNG and that they haven't gotten an exotic yet (isn't it supposed to be exotic for a reason?!), there are tons of players getting kicked off or who can't even log in. To me, the most important aspect of playing a game is... well... being able to play the game. Also, a heads up on patches would be fabulous. A quick tweet/email/message board to say "Hey, we're going to patch tomorrow!" would allow for players to be prepared versus surprised and upset. Has nothing to do with the game play, but would make a huge difference in people's attitudes towards Destiny (I think anyways).
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Yeah I've been getting monkey every 5 minutes I'm about to quit this bs
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Edited by Yebbert=VX9= / BladeJe: 10/28/2014 5:55:25 PMI love the fact that the atheon push is finnaly fixed. The problem only? to late. The worst part and yes i am gonna say it are the glitches in the raid. Yesterday with my hardcore team we went into VOG to finish Atheon for a few. It was suppose to take 15 mins but instead it took an hour?! this was not even our fault. We have done it numerous of times but the damm raid glitches. Just a small summery. - 6 people alive , 2 getting teleported ( random or in the back it doesnt matter its broken) - 6 people alive and the people who got ported were stucked in the shield, THAT shield should only occur on te outside team not the portal team. - people being teleported instant death? WTH ?? And tbh i felt really bad you guys calling it a bug that we choose as a stratergy who gets teleported and who not ... Maby you should attend the important issues first. Your chasing away the players that were supose to stay.... eventually people will get fed up with bullshits. I love the game i like the game. But get your goddam priorities straight
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1 ReplyIt's glaringly obvious at this point that you guys do NOT want the late game content to be for soft-core players... You want it made for people who are willing to spend hours on the forums, looking for people who they think can hold their own in the raid. Hard mode is the best example I can think of. I think that this is just... Well, crazy. The main goal in this game, is to get levels. You say it's to defeat the "darkness" but honestly? I don't give a shit about the darkness. They are launching NO offenses against the speaker, when they [b]obviously[/b] have the troops to do it. The "hard-core" gamers you want to play the vault, all hate the story (because it's bad) and the "soft-core" gamers leave because it is so hard to advance. The game destiny was never perfect to begin with, and I can tell that you're trying to fix it but you guys are just digging the Destiny grave even deeper.
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It's not just about coming together with an elite team for me, it's about playing with my friends. We all want to do the raid, but not everyone is equally predisposed to mastering all roles in the raid. This "fix" is going to make it hard for me and my friends to keep playing the raid. "Carried" is maybe the wrong word. I've raided with players who weren't hip the strategies and mechanics, but they didn't have to be in order to be an asset to the team. You can give some one job, like stop the Supplicants from getting to the left gate, and they can do it and be an asset. The random teleports don't diversify gameplay, they force everyone to have the same job: tactician. Some people are better gunslingers than tacticians, though, and they and their teams shouldn't be penalized for that. The Atheon fight is better off having roles that different kinds of players can fill rather than forcing square pegs into round holes.
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I really can't say I support this change at all. I play as a 29 Hunter and have adapted all positions throughout the raid, but me being flexible doesn't mean that everyone else can. It already takes a huge amount of effort to just get people together to do the raid without matchmaking. I have played the Raid every week and have done the last 5 hard raids. I have 3 level 29 characters that I play on and have played the raid more times that I need to in a given week. I have played with completely random people that I come by at the tower and have played with lots of my friends. I know what it means to carry people and to do very well at it while being a great team leader, but there is no way I can play for them. So how can we create a strategy when the game is at random. This will mean that we will have to dedicate hours to finding people who are flexible enough for each position. I have needed a chest or helmet piece for both my hunters for over a month and have done the raid on hard and normal to try to acquire them which is already extremely frustrating just by itself. Now I have to keep trying but with people who can't fill positions that need to be filled and there is no way to create a strategy. SOLUTION: If you're going to keep Atheon's ability to send people at random then there needs to be more change. First there should be matchmaking that matches you with people at your skill level or sufficiency. The next thing is that there needs to be a higher chance of acquiring items that you don't already have or haven't receive at all throughout your characters. Once you place these things in then there wont be as much of an issue from the players. we play the raid to make the highest rank and get all the gear, yet some of us never receive the gear we need no matter what. So I guess it's all just luck instead of statistics and skill.
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5 RepliesThey should fix the issues that cause the wipes before making the encounter more difficult. Like the portals that sometimes won't take you back to aetheon, being killed while inside the shield.
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2 RepliesThis is only my second post on the forums but I expect to do alot more in the bear future as I want and will be commuting my gaming to pretty much just Destiny from now on... Ok so I dunno if this will get read or not, but I think there are a few issues that need to be discussed about since this patch. 1. First and foremost, obviously people are having major connection issues and being kicked from fire teams in raid. 2. Whilst I fully admit that me and others have cheesed through the raid a couple of times, we know how to play this game and we consider ourselves as veterans (nearly all level 30 and countless time and effort put it into Destiny, plus not too bad at Crucible either). We feel that the baby bumpers are completely acceptable and that any pushing bosses off of some sort is a good sign. However, we do completely disagree with the random teleporting. I understand that the raid is meant to be the hardest challenge in the game and we appreciate that, but again this goes back to forcing people into doing something they feel uncomfortable doing, and yes, whilst many argue that learning how to use the relic is fairly simple after a little practice, that does not rule out that some do not have the skill to use it efficiently. 3. One massive problem with the raid is getting stuck. The steps in the final room have had many people unable to move or cause to completely mess up the plan. 4. An even bigger problem and one of my own nightmares is that going through the portals send you back out the other side in the same room. This needs serious addressing. Now despite all the issues and complaints people have, I can live with it all fairly happy. But one problem and that I see as an absolute monstrosity in Destiny is your ammo. Every time we die (even worse in the raid) we lose a bit of ammo for each of our guns. Now say you die 3 times in the raid and have barely any ammo left. Explain to me how using 1 ammo synthesis for 1 gun with a 5 minute cool down justifies not having ammo for your other 2 guns???? Please don't let us lose ammo when we die, or another idea, let us lose it, but allow to instantly use a synthesis when we re spawn back in game. I can't stress enough how this issue makes me feel. It doesn't feel like it's making the game hard, it's just not user friendly and it puts me and others alike off continuing the challenge. I will post more soon. I hope if you read this, you at least somewhat agree. If not, everyone is entitled to their opinions and I'd like to hear your ideas too :)
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Edited by AKA_The_Kig: 10/28/2014 6:08:14 PMNo problem with "fixing" something that the dev team should have figured out in less time than it took actual gamers (<2 weeks) to find. This will keep some of the poorer players from being pulled through. However, the random pull is just plain stupid on so mainy levels. As has been stated, less players will ever be exposed to the raids because you can't afford to have players that don't have the skill join because the whole team suffers with a single mistake. The way it had been working was fine and strategies were worked out so that each member of our squad knew their role and could execute. Wasting pointless hours on resets will only discourage good teams and they will be gone when the next game comes along. I have already heard countless players express their dissatisfaction with the tedium of running the same thing over and over and over...ad nauseum... Only to be rewarded with a gun you already have, armor you don't need, or countless ships (don't get me started on that ugly pointless turd that come from VOG) or 7 sparrows for their 2 characters. Piss off your base of grinders at your own risk of demise Bungie.
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"Your opinions were heard, guys...we just chose to ignore them." I don't see how any other conclusion than this can be drawn. Over the last week, the opinions on here, reddit, gamefaqs, etc. have been overwhelmingly against this move. What a joke. You guys really are stuck in your own bubble. Blows my mind. You guys moonlighting for congress too?
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[quote]I talked a lot to the developers about your opinions on the matter. You don't want to be selected at random. You want to choose who gets to fetch the Relic under fire from those nasty Oracles. I spoke on your behalf. Your voice was heard. We discussed your concerns. [/quote] Aaaaand then you decided that you just don't give a blam about our concerns and rolled with it anyways! Great! I've never seen such a negative reaction to a potential change. The fact that you had two(-ish) weeks to review the feedback yet STILL went with the random teleports anyways is just mind blowing. How little do you care about us?
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Honestly I don't know why people are complaining about this patch. I have never pushed atheon off I just do it the normal way, everytime. It takes a few more minutes but honestly it's the easiest thing in the raid, besides the 3 platforms at the beginning. I can see where people would be mad though with the 3 random people being teleported, but it is the hardest "raid" or thing you will do in this game so you and your team should be able to adapt to it. As for me and my squad I usually roll with, we all have used the relic so it shouldn't be much of a change.
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7 RepliesEdited by MasterNinja224: 10/28/2014 4:34:41 PMBungie: Hey, heard how much you guys [i]love[/i] the rng, so have some more rng. Look forward to more rng in the future. Maybe we'll let the rng select your weapons for you.
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2 RepliesI just don't see the point of doing this now. The community made you realize that you delivered a broken raid that is not as hard as you thought. Now that a lot of people have the "hardmode" exclusive rewards(helmet and Vex mythoclast), you make this fix? NOW you decide to make people work for the only weapon that really feels exotic(not because of its stats but just because its the only place you can aquire it)? I have seen people with 3 mythoclast in their vault because of the exploit. Where's the equality? You should have left the raid just like it was already. There have been numerous exploits since the vault of glass was released and believe me, people will keep finding more exploits to keep showing you how broken your raid is. I say, accept and admit what you did wrong(don't give us the "theres a bug"a line), learn from it, move on. Make sure you don't make the same mistakes in the next raid. Its called growing as a developer. Doing this type of "fixes"(instead of what really needs fixing inside the raid) just shows your community how butthurt you are that "the most difficult thing you have created so far in a game", can be beaten in under 2 hours even on hardmode, because of your own mistakes.
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5 RepliesWho cares about teleporting just fix the damn portals!
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1 ReplyEdited by 【Fart.Mp3™】: 10/28/2014 5:47:12 PMAfter being Disconnected 8 times today, I am literally going to report this post because somehow bungie's "patch" made the connection worse. I have only been dc'ed twice before this patch. Gosh damn I am so amazed at how hard bungie is working to make sure I just quit and go to cod. I hate cod, but damn it sound like a dream after the amount of rage I've had today.
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I completed the raid last night for the first time. My team and I died horribly. Over and over and over and over. We died because each new encounter required a different strategy which we were not quite ready for. With each death we learned to work as a team in a different way as the situation required. Eventually we were successful and that struggle to adapt and learn for literal HOURS is what made completing the raid so gratifying. These changes are no different. We will die over and over until we learn to adapt. Thanks for keeping us honest, Bungie. This game is absolutely amazing.
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Edited by Level1 on Hard: 10/28/2014 5:54:03 PMTL;DR - Our long history of incompetent decision making is > than what the players actually want. Not to mention we are going "la la la la" with our ears covered at the talk of all the blockbuster titles coming out over the next few weeks that do multiplayer leaps and bounds better than Destiny. - Bungie Hey Bungie here is a clue, bullet sponge does not equal hard. Also no one in gaming has ever asked for their games to be more random. There is a history of where gamers have protested randomness, not asked for it. Good job Bungie.
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1 ReplyWhat I hate about all these people complaining is how out of perspective it all is. This is one change to the last part of the final boss. This change is so small and insignificant in comparison to the entire Raid. Infinitesimal even. People are acting like the impact will be MUCH bigger than it is. Will some teams struggle? Absolutely. Hell, I've struggled with plenty of teams WITHOUT the random teleport. If you don't think your team can overcome random teleports for this small part of the game, then why should your team win at all? Seriously, people act like no one can learn anything. There was a time when I never held the relic - then there was a time when I needed to. I -blam!-ing LEARNED. You learned the relic too, right? You learned how to challenge the Past and the Future timestreams. You learned the best strategies. You got the rhythm down. Are you telling me the people you know can't learn too? Atheon, you can teleport me anyday.
