I could tell you about my thoughts and opinions about Aetheons Revenge.......

I'm incredibly disappointed that the random teleporting went through. I've been looking forward to trying out the hard raid for quite awhile now, but due to vision issues, it makes it hard for me to do certain things in game (like noticing specific objects or taking longer for me to memorize areas for example). Previously this wouldn't have been an issue, since I can follow someone who knows what they are doing just fine. With this new system in place, it pretty much nukes my chance of doing the raid unless I'm with friends who are already aware of my limitations and know how to work around it, and even then, it's a long shot at best since there are areas that I just plain suck at, and am not able to get better than I am due to my limitations. Prior to the "fix", a team could have avoided this situation by catering the roles to everyone's strengths, but now, it pretty much eliminates the opportunity for anyone who is unable to learn every role (for whatever reason) altogether. It limits the raid primarily to players who have already learned every aspect of it and discourages new players to even try it unless they have a good group of friends who are willing to dedicate a lot of time with no potential rewards to help teach them.

I have all my raid gear, one of the lucky few to get it from normal only running it twice. I am frustrated that my friends and clan mates who have run it more than 8 times only to not get any relevant gear , keep having the same problem. You guys are going to lose serious fan base as y'all aren't actually 'listening'to the root of the problem. Even cheesing atheon left people without proper gear.

I have 2 problems with the line of reasoning presented. 1) You want everyone to learn the mechanics? Great! You want to do it by doing things randomly? Dumb. Instead, once team of three goes in one portal, which locks the other three to have to go through the other portal. Everyone has to figure out oracles/relics, but now we don't waste time figuring out which person should actually carry the relic every time the teleport happens. Making things random is not a test of skill, its merely a mechanic to make things ARBITRARILY more difficult. You want to test my manliness? Bring it on. You want to make my life hard for no reason? -blam!- off. 2) You made a game with classes, but at every turn you seem to want to make classes worthless. Gunslingers are phenomenal at oracles, taking out 3-4 of them with unparalleled efficiency. Striker titans can flash bang grenade and make the relic holders life super easy. Even act as a quick clear for half the adds with a fist of havoc. When you make it random, it takes away our ability to be able to tackle the challenges with the tools at our disposal. Tools that we should be able to use. You feel like you get carried by not having to get teleported? How do you think my gunslinger is going to feel when I'm FORCED to stay out of oracles and golden gun those super challenging, ultra difficult, impossible to kill supplicants...

The destruction of teamwork is then the complete failure on your part deej

TL:DR - Raids should extremely difficult but rewarding. Honestly i would have preferred a fix to loot system than the raid. Bungie idea is for Raids to be this epic insanely difficult task that requires a hardcore fire team. That is all well and good but the benefits do not justify the difficulty you would like to have. This game as fun as it is does not reward skill at all. Imagine spending hours to complete the raid on hard and all you get is chatterwhite and shards. No Vex, no raid gear, all you have to show for completing [quote] an activity that was designed to be undertaken by a hardcore team that is ready and willing to adapt and improvise to changing battle conditions[/quote] Is a white shader... Until rewards such as the Vex become guaranteed its hard to justify your goal of making what the you would like the Raid to be. It took forever for me to get to lvl 30, I had to make 3 characters of the same class, and delete and recreate character to gain more opportunities for a raffle ticket for raid gear and the vex mythoclast which i have yet to receive. You have effectively changed raid from being something fun and challenging to a farming spot. The Raid should be an incredibly difficult task that rewards players fairly for their accomplishments. PS: Ive completed the raid so many times that it really doesn't matter who gets pulled, my main issue is the reward system

"more stable for all players" my monkey a$$ !

Id like to make a suggestion. Deej, consider being both fair and impartial with the nerf hammer. What I mean by this is we, as a community are passionate. We love (or love to bitch about) Destiny. Unfortunately, we get fed weapon nerf after weapon nerf, a half assed scout rifle buff, and raid nerfs. Truth be told, im tired of receiving spankings from your devs. Give me a God Damned cookie already. Buff the weapons you intend, fix the bugs, do something that doesn't piss the community off. You might see we arent habitual crybabies.

I still don't see how this is a huge deal to people raids supposed to be hard

I would agree with you deej if I didn't continuously get ships from the raid, we should be able to get 1 piece of raid armor every time we beat the raid or atleast something different each time. The raid is not that interesting to me anymore

#Deej If you are making it harder please adjust the drops some. Making the drops so you are less likely to get equipment that you have currently equipped would be enough. My friend has gotten raid boots every time. I have gotten 2 chests and 2 VOC. Shards are helpful to a point but if you have 100+ ascendant energy/shards it really sucks to get more. I enjoy the raid and I am kinda looking forward to not having to be the relic man every time. Please adjust drops.

I have no issue with increasing the difficulty of the raid, I understand that people are completing it quicker than was expected. My concern is that this patch removes the one true "teamwork" challenge in Destiny, everything else was down to individual skill. Our group had a portal team and an outside team. We had a relic carrier. We had people with weapons optimized for killing oracles. We had people that cleared supplicants. People had jobs and knew what to do. Now with this patch we are removing this and dropping back to it all depending on individual skill. The worst part is, we are doing it by applying the RNG. You say that you want Vault of Glass to be for organized teams - for hardcore groups of Friends. Randomizing this encounter means that as long as everyone understands all of the roles, then there is no need for teamwork, little need for communication. If you want to increase the difficulty, then add an extra oracle or two in the portals, or shorten their charge up time to make the portal team work harder. Add supplicants, or increase their health to make the outside team work harder. Shorten Atheon's enrage timer, whatever you have to do. Hitting the problem with the RNG hammer does make the encounter more difficult, but only by nerfing teamwork - a thing I don't believe is ever a good idea. Destiny has no healers, no DPS, no tanks. Letting us designate a relic carrier, a portal team, and an outside team is the closest we have to real "roles" in the raid. I had high hopes that future Raids would have more mechanics like the Atheon time portal for us to build special teams around, but this change points towards that not being a thing. This change is not going to stop my group, or any established group, from completing the raid. But, for my team atleast, it will make it feel a lot less like a team effort, and more like just another strike.

Move on, focus on the next raid and more Crucible game types. VOG was already broken and exploited, will never be what you intended it to be.

Personally i have no problems with it, because you made it just more challenging, but at the same Time you Crushed all discussion about matchmaking in Raid and playing with Random ppl. The Raid is not made for Friends like you would Love or you wana Sell it to ppl, in my opinion it is only for the Hardcore players and Clans! Me and my Friend are trying to Raid since release and it is impossible! Just say it how it is, you can't handle it that ppl found exploits and cheesed Atheon. But at the same time you have Clans who are carrying their hole Clan trough the Raid! (yeah i know, a Clan is here to Help) But does this mean that this ppl did deserve the Rewards? Yes! Now is the case that you can't go in the Raid without Fully upgraded Raid Weapons or ScoutRifles because of the Oracles. So you made it much harder to go and try the Raid on Hard again. And my Biggest Problem with all your Super dupper Patches and Hotfixes is, you are fixing everything what ppl have found to Help them trough the Game! But you can't Fix your Servers and put some Money in Deticated Servers, that we are not kicked out of from the Raid and must try after 40min the flawless Raider again, the millions of Laggs and Latenzy problems in PVP, the Reward system what brings ppl to the Point to leave the Game and Stop Playing it. I get it that it is RNG LOL but this RNG Sucks! I have no problems with it in Story and Strike Missions, but in Nightfall and the Raid it tis terrible, only 1 Exotic Weapon from the Nightfall and i did it 12 times now -_- Really Bungie. I carried my Friend trough the last one on Moon and he only gets Fxxking Straing Coins o.O and his answer where Cold: God thx COD is coming ! And i can feel him, he have not much time to play. And when he is playing he only gets Crap. So try to Fix real Issues what we all Have with the Game, and not things You don't like! If you keep this pace Bungie you will Crush yourself with Destiny.

It requires a tactic to beat a raid boss ! Bungie just pulled the tactic aspect out of the raid and replaced it with, even more, randomness. I can totally live with the point that his spots, where he can fall down, are fixed. Never used it anyway. But the point that he chooses now random targets to teleport, its the final reason for me to stop playing for good. It was a short new franchise experience...

The patch or resulting server stress has created an unstable connection to your servers. I have been kicked twice now. Error code monkey. And the game continually says "Contacting Destiny Servers" across the bottom of the screen. Millions of dollars and a massive profit margin not enough to offer a good product?

First priority should be fixing glitches killing off players during the fight...not a legitimate way to kill a boss. Sorry, but if we can jump to our deaths or kite sideways, and knock a friend off the middle platform, the boss should be able to fall. Fix your damn glitches and buff your shitty exotics before messing with ways to kill a boss. Bungie is ass-backwards, and I'm about done

Fine with me. Everyone should know or learn how to do every job on the last fight anyways...unpredictability makes the fight more interesting.

[quote] At that point, I recalled all the times I stood and delivered the line "...the most challenging encounter we've ever created." It was hard to disagree. (...) Let's talk about it. Please sound off in this thread, and know that I'll be reading.[/quote] Alright. So, do you also recall what you said at E3 2014?: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SQKp0VcA1Vw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YMUlAfCAzQ What happened? I hate to be that guy and I can imagine that the position you're in is not the most comfortable one, but there are still a lot of questions unanswered. The raid is the best part of the game and not by a small margin. I just wonder what happened to the rest of the game? Speaking of the raid: What makes you call it a 'fix' as if it was not intentionally that the three players furthest from Atheon get teleported? That was something that players needed to figure out first. It was one of the puzzles, wasn't it?

My biggest problem now is that the servers seem worse now.

Am i the only one pissed off because they till didn't buff bad juju and thorn? How much -blam!-ing time does it take to do that?!

I'm only here because of my new super exotic bounty. Only happens when there's a new patch. It's.. Collect 200 Noob Tears from the forum. Well this public event makes it easier. Gives out 20 every major/ultra whiners.

[quote]I was told "The Raid is never supposed to be easy."[/quote] I guess they can go by the standard of, "Our story was never supposed to be easy...to understand"

Something you brought up: "Random Templar Shields": The Templar doesn't randomly shield players every time. He does initially and if a person selected to be shielded dies. However if the players who are initially shielded don't die, I've found that it never shields anyone else, but those three players every time. This allows us to split into groups (shielded/unshielded) so the shielded players can break one another's shields, while the other three focus on Templar DPS and once the shields are down, they too focus on Templar DPS. If the Raid developers are so concerned about random instances being truly random, then they should make the Templar Shielding just as random as Atheon's selection of who he throws through time. This is my personal opinion & suggestion. More on the Templar: I'm sure that the Raid development team is aware, but encase they aren't, you can also push the Templar off of a ledge. Now this occurrence is more difficult than quickly cheesing Atheon, but it is still much easier than traditionally fighting him AND GUARANTEES the "fifth element" chest will spawn (since he doesn't teleport due to never dropping his shields). Since Atheon falling off a ledge was a bug, I figure this too must be a bug. Now I'm sure I'll catch flak for bringing this to your attention, but like I said, I'm sure you and the development team are already aware of it. Many people will argue that since it still takes about 5 minutes to spawn the number of grenades and supers required to kill the Templar, this way shouldn't be fixed. I tend to disagree! It is still MUCH easier to kill this "Boss" than conventional means. All you have to do is keep entire team in back, kill stuff until you have a grenade/super, jump out, use it, go back to cover, and never once drop his shields or be in any real risk of dying. This is in NO WAY "difficult" and doesn't seem to fit the Raid. Before anyone comments on my experience with these "bugs" I will address it myself: - Yes, I have pushed both Atheon and the Templar off of ledges. These are the fastest/easiest ways of killing them. - Yes, I have defeated them the "legitimate" way multiple times. - No, I don't feel these ways are honest ways of proclaiming victory against Destiny's "Most Challenging Event." - Yes, I too use these exploits to gain the little gear that I've unlocked from the Raid since I mostly just get Shards anyway. I personally feel that actual gear should be more guaranteed for defeating these bosses, but also feel that they should be as difficult as originally intended. I feel that this would be a reasonable compromise and middle ground between the two sides. I personally started using these strategies because for two consecutive weeks I got somewhere around 28 shards, 2 energies, and chatterwhite for running the ENTIRE Raid (normal & hard)! Everyone else got exclusive drops and since I haven't been duly rewarded for my efforts, I figured I'd make it as easy as possible for myself since I don't really get much in the way of "exclusive" rewards from the Raid and that is why I propose these fixes. Thank you for your time, TCProphetSlayer

It doesn't really matter what we think because: 1) your holier than thou devs will do what THEY want, not what your customers that pay their salary want. When a snooty chef tells me I have to eat his food a certain way, guess what I do. Correct, I don't eat his food period. 2 weeks and this game is history. 2) no one can play now anyway because you've let loose the monkeys and weasels. If you stay connected for more than 5 minutes now, count yourself lucky.