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Edited by DeeJ:
10/28/2014 3:38:45 PM
3117
Thoughts and Opinions about Atheon's Revenge.
So, the update just went live. Atheon can no longer be pushed off his platform. He'll also select people at random to be thrown across time. He's a real bastard, eh?
I talked a lot to the developers about your opinions on the matter. You don't want to be selected at random. You want to choose who gets to fetch the Relic under fire from those nasty Oracles. I spoke on your behalf. Your voice was heard. We discussed your concerns.
I even said "Why not just change Hard Mode and leave Easy Mode alone?"
I was told "The Raid is never supposed to be easy."
At that point, I recalled all the times I stood and delivered the line "...the most challenging encounter we've ever created." It was hard to disagree. As a veteran of Cairo Station on Legendary in Halo, I had to admit that I had been carried through the Raid like luggage assigned to my clan. I did my own carrying later, but carrying had been done.
This is an activity that was designed to be undertaken by a hardcore team that is ready and willing to adapt and improvise to changing battle conditions. Like the moment when the Templar shields random players, the Final Boss was supposed to be extremely dangerous. While we've been working on some of the other things for which you've been asking (i.e. better exotics, voice chat in matchmaking, more bounties), the designers who made the Raid have plugged the holes that you showed them.
If you got in on the ground floor of this thing, we thank you. If you understand the mechanics for how to beat Atheon, it's still a thing you can teach your friends. If you're all up to the challenge, the Raid is waiting for you.
Let's talk about it. Please sound off in this thread, and know that I'll be reading.
English
#Destiny
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I think it's good that random people get teleported simply because it allows all players to learn all the steps in the raid.
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1 ReplyWhy do the hardest thing that bungie has ever created if RNG has the potential of rewarding a player with nothing but materials? This is my only concern when it comes to the difficulty of this activity: incentive. It almost feels like a punishment, when all players in the team but you are given a tangible reward to either keep or shard.
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The darkness is winning.
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The argument by the design team that it is meant to be hard there for we are going to randomize it is BS. You don't implement bad game design to make something harder. Part of team play taking on rolls. It's far more fun and promotes better teamwork when a group determines what rolls each person will fill and they achieve that goal. Think about it this way. 6 guys go in and make it to Atheon. They manage to get him to 10% health and then due to a random teleport it pulls in one guy that is less experienced and the team wipes. How do you think he will feel? Isn't it better for him to see how its done and then have a chance to learn? "But he is learning." you say. Well that may be true, but the best way to learn is through repetition. How is someone supposed to master a skill when they have a 1:6 chance of participating in it. Please do fix cheats and broken mechanics, but the randomization is just a bad idea.
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Edited by Ez: 10/28/2014 8:00:19 PMWhat is there to talk about? The community was very vocal with its opinions on this subject. Once again it's "we at Bungie" deciding how YOU want us to play... You present us with problems, we solve them.. you don't like how we solve them, so you change the encounter to YOUR liking. The thing is, it really doesn't matter as It's not all that hard. It just takes a bit of time to adjust for those new to the roles, but in the end it's a minor setback that really does nothing to add to the difficulty. All it really does is just give another soapbox to those who are in disagreement with how things are handled in Destiny. How out of touch are those at Bungie? Let's take the original loot cave, for instance. Never mind that it wasn't an exploit, but rather how the game worked. Quick patch, loot cave gone. Soon, players figured out loot cave 2.0, and 3.0.... What really should have occurred to you is why people were having more fun standing around and doing nothing but shooting into a cave for a few measly blue engrams than actually playing the game according to your "design goals". I mean, really think about that for a minute...
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I won't try to post a long one, because I'm pretty sure you're not reading these with any desire to follow through. Sure, you can make the teleports random, increase the difficulty... but for those that haven't raided before and don't have the rewards that go with it (which are practically REQUIRED FOR THE RAID IN THE FIRST PLACE), what do they do? The Loot is random as all hell, and while I've now received 4 of the 6 or so raid loot weapons and two of the armor pieces, my friend has received the armor shader 4 times in a row. If you're going to increase difficulty, make sure you make the experience with it. Random loot does not make it worth it when you get the same damn item while other people manage to get the coolest thing in the game. I'm glad I canceled my Gold renewal, and only wish I could spend money that would take a painful bite out of supporting activision for their cruel milking of franchises. I hope that you, Deej, see their cruelty as we gamers do and choose to do the right thing: Be angry, be loud, bitch to the higher-ups on our behalf, BE THE VOICE OF THE COMMUNITY THAT YOU CLAIM TO BE. I Feel sorry for everyone at bungie being blamed for Activision's greed, and wish you all well that Destiny doesn't proved to be the downfall of one of the last good developers.
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I totally agree with patching the whole pushing off Atheon deal, but I just cannot excuse the random teleports. For me, it has [b]nothing[/b] to do with difficulty. It has to do with just how bad of a game design decision it is. It's so amateurish. The raid is suppose to be a team experience with a bunch of strategy, tactics, or what have you. This update totally removes that entire aspect from the end of the raid. I'm very disappointed and Deej, what I got out of what you said is that you did not try hard enough as our voice at all. Seriously. Not only that, but the developers that actually said "The Raid is never suppose to be easy." really piss me off. We're the consumers. We voiced our opinions and the majority of us didn't want random teleports so why was it just so compelling to just toss that out the window and further your own agenda? I get that it's your creation and that you deserve control over it, but here's the issue. We, the consumers, purchased your creation. If a huge amount of us don't want something to be part of the creation, don't just blow us off. We should get a say, not a murmur.
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Yes Bungie, lets add more rng into the game. Maybe you should select who gets to code, design game play, and design the story at random too! In fact lets select our new president by drawing a name from a hat! Why would anyone want a skill heart surgeon to operate on their heart when they can get a dentist, artist, or "that guy off the street with the shaky hands" to do the same job? A community forum? Why should we listen to the consumers, businesses are best run with no feedback because the customer is always wrong. Content exclusive in the game to people who have the power friendship and massive time on their hands, along with an extremely small chance of getting that content for massive hours of time spent, phone calls made, practice tests run, and etcetra? YES, that is perfect! Who needs to listen to the casual gamers? Its not like they make up the majority of our clients, right? Keep doing what you are doing Bungie. Random job selection in the USSR was extremely successful. Just look at them now...And look at how successful Cuba is! Cuba's dictatorial government is an example of how great the world could be if no one had a say!
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Random Selection: I'm OK with this in the long run, however in the short term I would have rather had the voice chat mess fixed first before the randomization patch. If everyone CAN hear everyone else, then that's fine. However if some people can't hear others and it's just a cluster (which has happened more often than I like) then it'll just turn into a pain and frustration. Communication is KEY during the raid and as a team we can overcome Atheon on hard, we just need to make sure our communication is running 100%. And right now that is not always the case.
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I don't mind the update for random selection and of course fixing Atheon from just falling off the platform. But we wish you guys fixed the loot drops too. I just checked my stats on destinytracker.com (PSN: JAYEM) and it shows I've completed the Raid 20 times. More than half I believe is on Hard Mode. I have yet to get the Vision of Confluence (and I love scout rifles), Fatebringer, Praedyth's Timepiece, Corrective Measure, and Praetorian Foil (least wanted). By the way, I have created 3 hunters (all level 30 because of armor swapping) to increase the chances of those dropping. There is something wrong when I've done this raid 20 times with 3 of the same class character just to get the raid weapons and I still don't even get them. I won't even do a Titan or Warlock now because its so hard to get loot in the raid, and hard mode at that where its twice the loot. I did get the mythoclast 3 times. I would love to trade two of them in for Confluence and Fatebringer but you guys don't allow trading either... What makes it worse is, until you patch the mythoclast, its not a gun I want to use. The ultimate reward seems to be the confluence for me and I can't ever get it... This RNG really makes me want to quit and play other games TBH. I have a combined 289 hours or so between the 3 characters and I have yet to get the best scout rifle in the game because of RNG and no trading... This game doesn't feel rewarding anymore. And to anyone that says, "yeah but you got the mytho.". Again, I had to create 3 characters of the same class to get that gun... By the way, 7 timebreaker sparrows??? You guys should start charging strange coins, energy or shards to allow players to trade with each other or something... Frustrated and starting to not like this game...
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I mean I guess we'll see how this hashes out... But I think it's interesting that Bungie went after this teleport fix rather than stopping the cheese and seeing how many people could beat Atheon. I think I saw a stat like 500k of the 3 million players (17% of the player base) have attempted VOG; but how many have beaten Atheon on normal/hard regardless of the cheese? Seems to me like someone spent too much time fixing a problem that wasn't necessarily there to begin with. Hell, even cheese groups sometimes had issues with Oracles and that was with a dedicated group.
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The devs are right guys... the opinion of a few developers far outweighs the vast majority of 3.2million. ..... OH WAIT!
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asking for thoughts and opinions AFTER the "fix" ...smh. Damage is done people, get over it.
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I'm a desticle. I said it. Destiny might be the most fun I've ever had in a video game. That said, this change is terrible. It's a slap in the face. Bungie replaced strategy with randomness just to make the raid harder. Did it work? Sure, but at the cost of teamwork and strategy, the things that made the raid fun. If you haven't figured it out by now, I'm not talking about the Atheon-gravity nerf. I'm talking about random teleportation. And the worst part of all of this is that it specifically hurts the newer players. I'll be fine, I can run any position. But who's going to take the guardians without raid experience? Your consumer base has screamed these points at you for weeks, so here's my question: why even ask for feedback if you're going to completely disregard it?
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I know you guys try and make a lot of shit happen. It's hard to keep a whole community happy if everyone wants something different. I personally don't mind the update. I think it's great, I HATE players cheesing stuff. This is great, gets all the players involved and keeps me and my friends entertained for hours. Great update, now I feel my heart pumping a little bit faster when someone has a relic cause our whole team is on them. Love it. This is what destiny is to me, a -blam!-ing thrill ride. It keeps me coming back for more. Could be just me, cause I personally like a game to be challenging. Keep it up.
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Thoughts? Your patches and fixes are dumb and show how you don't give a flying F about player feedback. Opinions Devs are a bunch of retards they consistently demonstrate this with their patches and fixes.
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1 ReplyI definitely think he shouldn't be pushed off but the random selection is not welcome what happens if it selects 3 people who are low on ammo or not experienced with the relic or not good at killing oracles, you haven't made it harder you've made it more annoying. Congrats Bungie you're basically DICE at this point
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What's the point of talking about it? You supposedly talked to the developers who said "who cares what the money paying customers want, we'll make it how we feel like making it". What good will talking more about it do? Make us more upset that once again in a game the developers don't want to listen to their customers?
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My Opinion, you ruined it for players who are new to the Vault. I used to help people through the Vault but since I can't even chose my role on the last fight, that's pretty much over. I can do the Vault with a selected team, but I'm not going to put in time to help new people when I worked to level my character to 30 so that I could breeze through it.
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Edited by pakmat80: 10/28/2014 8:14:44 PMWell i hope to get more than -blam!-ing ascendant shards and energy thats for damn sure.
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Another fix is sliding through the Vex time gates... You're basically trapped through time and constantly hearing the noise of being teleported.
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Great now please fix the Templar, add more content (six strokes and a raid is not enough) and PLEASE make destiny more stable, this last update epically has caused the game to be even more unstable
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3 RepliesAll the complaints I'm reading about the random teleport are silly. The solution has always been to step your game up. Don't try the raid with anything less than a good team of communicating players. That's how the raid should be done anyway! When things hit the fan you need reliable teammates who can think on their toes, not habitual players that nestle their loins on procedure and expectation. If you do it the right way then it won't matter who goes where because everyone will be legit at dealing with the situation. Come on bros. This is a joke.
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Good Deej you are keeping your words, I'm glad you are not a liar. Said so some changes in the vault of glass are wrong and here is why: Destiny is ours now not yours anymore. It's ok to fix glitches like atheon falling off that glassy edge but not to destroy our strategies randomizing atheon's chooses or restricting the area avalable for us to beat the templar. Those changes are unfair in my opinion, I hope that the designers hear those words. Thanks Deej for your work.
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I like all the patches they made this time, one wasn't my favourite (the one with random teleporting) i would like to choose my fireteam based in their skill to do what they can do best and preform their best, but it isn't that bad i'll be able to it, its just a litlle bit harder
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This randomness is just gay. I'm in a clan with 6 people and we all have our favourite positions that made the raid a very enjoyable experience for everyone. We can still do the raid now but it's never going to be the same :(
