I LOVE IT!! piss on all the crying ass kids on here that want easy mode and free rides!!

I see the point behind randomizing the teleportation. Carrying teams through a Raid is not something we want, yet is something that is very possible. It would be nice if you guys could strike at any moment in the Raid where teammates tend to get carried for the sake of reaping the rewards that the Vault has to offer, and you guys try that. I can very much see how carrying can occur in this situation, and feel like it was good to take action against that. With that being said, I really loved it when I had a team that wasn't carried. I was playing with a real nice group of friends and being able to plan and play to our own strengths and weaknesses. I really loved it when someone said, "We need someone with a really good void weapon to go with us through the portal." And so, the man for that job was obvious. At a certain point, though, I got very, very curious as to what was on the other side of those portals... Unfortunately for me, I was on the less useful half of the team when it came to that job, so I was very much left out of that fun encounter. Randomizing the teleportation will give me the chance to partake in that part of the adventure, even though it might not be the [i]number one best way[/i] to go. [b]Pros to random teleportation:[/b] Let [u]all players share in the experience[/u], while [u]eliminating carrying[/u] as well as [u]giving less popular players a chance to shine[/u] [b]Pros to intentional teleportation:[/b] Let [u]players strategize to their strengths[/u], which also [u]gives team members special, valuable roles[/u] [b]Solution:[/b] In order to keep the pros of both of these systems while getting rid of as many cons as we can, I think the best idea would be to [u]allow for one team member to be intentionally teleported, while all others are decided randomly[/u]. With this, fireteams can decide what special Ace they want to use in the Venus and Mars areas. Maybe they want someone that does a really good job with the Relic, so they decide to send him in. Or maybe they would rather have someone with Raid-set gear that makes them more effective against the Oracles. It'll give fireteams a bit of freewill and power of decision, without making that power too... well, powerful. Reducing their ability to decide to only one man will give fireteams that freedom of choice without making it possible for an entire team to be carried through the difficult parts of the Vault.

Just more RFYG to deal with. The game is centered around randomness so it's only fitting even more randomness gets patched in. Hell even your connection to the game is on a random system. I love you guys, and I play ever day... but my time is growing less and less frequent. o many hours I have spent dealing with the randomness, watching all my friends get to 30, and get all the best guns. Luck is not a strongpoint of mine, hence why I stay away from Vegas. But honestly, realizing that the only way to really get anywhere in this game is based solely on chance and not skill, I will have to say that I'll more than likely be moving on. Beautiful game and I mean absolutely stunning in many different ways but adding even more randomness to endgame content just drives me further away from caring to hit 30 or get the items I want. I can't handle the RFYG anymore and I love being challenged for my skills not for my good luck or lack thereof. 4 weeks in the raid WITHOUT CHEESING and only receiving ascended material HAHAHAHA. Maybe a tier system on items from raids or harder content. IDK I'm just a gamer. So in answer to the above question, the raid honestly needs much more than just MORE randomness. You will be missed, and I hope Destiny makes it past the first DLC. EDIT: For those clueless to RFYG, it stands for Random -blam- You Generator. And Destiny's is very true to the name unfortunately.

You ask for our opinions and words, but clearly they do not matter. As a community we expressed our disdain for this change. This cheap tactic to artificially increase the difficulty of the end game content and being dishonest about it is very off-putting. First it was the bait-and-switch with the story and now a very blatant and obvious disregard for players. It is clear now that the only opinion that will matter is the one that affects your pocket book. No more words. I will be "expressing my thoughts" accordingly.

You can still push him off your update failed please tell the developers to work hard and pay more attention to their game thank you

Would you kindly update the guns already an I will not be helping any new people in the raid anymore waste of time Ty for making my life easier

Thanks for letting the raid team know how we feel deej. But If they ignore the player base for to long soon the player base will ignore them. Most of the patches have not been to exciting for the majority of the player base. Each week has been pretty negative. We need more then just "we will build bridges".

I know that these things have been said before, likely many times over, but perhaps it's useful to reiterate them. I will begin with the claim that my favorite part of the game was the raid. I had read that this endgame experience was meant to be incredibly different from the rest of the game. It sounded awesome, and I was excited to do the raid. When I finally got to do the raid with my friends, I had a blast. Admittedly some of the fun was stolen because we weren't approaching it as a brand new thing to be solved, but going off of one person's memory and occasionally looking at the internet to figure out what to do. There were two reasons I enjoyed it so much, such that after completing the Nightfall each week, I spend the rest of my time hoping that enough of my friends will get on that we can do the raid, even just on Normal (we've yet to make a serious attempt at Hard mode). 1) It was a puzzle. The idea that we aren't told exactly what to do, but instead have to figure out what is going on as we go through it, was so much fun. And even after going through, there is still a puzzle to figure out. What is the best way to handle this section? Where should people be placed to be able to take out enemies and oracles at the same time? How do we position ourselves so we can prevent the Templar from teleporting without putting ourselves in unnecessary risks? How should we set up our teams so that we can maximize our chances against Atheon? All of these were avenues of study that I could look into and think about, that I could talk with about my friends. That element of pure strategy and puzzle solving (even where the puzzles became rather easy to solve) made the raid fun to play through, to the point where I was not only happy and willing to run through it once a week on each character, but to do so again and again for the sake of testing and perfecting these strategies. 2) It required serious teamwork. Every other aspect of the game is geared around the individual player, such that even where there is a team, the dynamic is one where each player does what he feels most comfortable doing, and there is no thought to working as a team in any way. That is not to say that all teams necessarily work that way, but the structure of the missions pushed toward that direction (think for instance, about the nature of communication in the game: for a strike, it isn't necessary for anyone to have a mic, whereas for the raid, it is almost imperative that everyone have a mic). The raid created an actual team dynamic where people could fit into specific roles according to what they are best suited for, and the group could gather together and figure out how to best utilize those roles. Given that the classes can't be as distinct as in a traditional MMO, these team roles are the best that is probably ever going to be available (unless a future raid can actually make serious use of the skills and supers of each class). On a strike, it is three individuals working individually towards a common goal. On a raid, it is six individuals working together towards a common goal. My issue with the teleporting update is that it mostly eliminates the teamwork aspect (the fight against Atheon is probably where having a specific role was most beneficial, relative to the other parts of the raid), and injures the puzzle-solving aspect. Since each player is meant to be as well-acquainted with each possible role as every other player, the encounter must inevitably turn into people figuring out what is best for them individually, rather than thinking about how to best situate themselves as a team. There will still be communication, of course, and something that looks like teamwork, but it is turning the raid into a larger and more difficult strike. I understand the basic idea behind the update: it was probably expected that the puzzle that is Atheon would not be solved quite so quickly. It is an inevitability that the majority of players will utilize the resources available to them to find the quickest and most efficient way to get rewards, and so some people will solve the fight, then share the information, and then the solution will spread. When everyone is using the same strategy, no matter what, the experience is dulled. There is probably also a desire to make the raid more difficult to make the rewards more unique and worthwhile, since people are meant to really work for these rewards, not just get them because they (or someone on their Fire Team) read a guide on the internet. So in order to both make the fight more difficult and to prevent people from solving the puzzle, the random factor is added in. But this feels like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. In turn for casting out the solution to the fight, it also casts out the spirit of the raid. There is no more puzzle to be solved, which is what the raid is presented as. There is no more teamwork, which is touted as the unique feature of the raid over other aspects of the game. I'm all for making the raid tougher if need be, but not by sacrificing that thing which made the raid feel fun to play. This update isn't going to kill the raid, or make it impossible. Players will learn and adjust, or stop playing. I'm hoping I still find it fun to play. But I'm not looking forward to playing it as much as I was before.

Fine with the patch, but please fix monkey error.

Deej, we don't want you to read the replies on this thread, we want those developers to.

Ok about the Atheon fix but the random teleport I'm not convinced! In a raid each team member has their role to play which they can perfect over time. I like being on the keeping the portal open team and don't want to be teleported! Also the raid should guarantee at least one raid armour drop! I've done it a few times and all I get is shards! Frustrating!

It will be a bit more difficult, well actually annoying i think is a better term to use, with the randomness, I have, well had I guess now, different weapon setups depending on whether I was going into the portals or staying out. Not to mention many of us end up going with random groups, so all this will do is make more people rage quit, and the raid take even longer and become more frustrating. If this "bug" was there since the beginning it should have been addressed a lot earlier shouldn't it? To me it feels more like a punishment for people finding a way to circumvent the boss fight by knocking him off the edge than a "fix" to a bug that's been there for weeks now.

What really gets me pissed off about the game is that me and my friends actually did the raid on hard legitly but only one person gets vmc so we all started pushing atheon off in a desperate attempt to get it. I have never received it but I know people who have 5 of them. So why cant you make it so everyone who beats the raid on hard gets the vmc now that you have made it 10x harder because you guys don't want us to farm and aren't we all farming the raid to get one weapon?

Sadly, I could live with the fixes to the push mechanic. However, the random teleport mechanic even on normal was a straw too many for me. Warlords of Dreanor Call Of Duty The Division Dragon Age They offer more then what Destiny does right now. Personally I felt our feedback to leave the teleport mechanic alone was ignored due to developer ego's. It will cost them, sadly. Happy adventures, I'm signing off for the time being.

Patching the whole pushing atheon off the map, cool. I can understand that. RANDOMIZING WHO IS TELEPORTED.... Stupid. Events like the VoG are supposed to use teamwork, communication, and a strategy, am I right? By randomizing who is teleported you are taking away a groups strategy. This raid is gonna be such a pain in the dick now. It's gonna be "OMG I GOT TELEPORTED! WHO HAS THE RELIC?" not to mention some people probably won't even know how to use the relic. Everyone is different and has their strong points, meaning it's nothing but strategy to have a designated 3 to be teleported and one that will carry the relic. Randomizing that is just stupid. Don't get me wrong I enjoy this game very much but I feel as if you're focusing on all the wrong things when it comes to these hot fixes. First off, it seems the main focus on this game is PvP and after seeing a poll on here it's clear more of us are interested in PvE. A crazy difference too. It was like 89% PvE to 11% PvP... Focus on what's important, PLEASE. While you are patching the raid and doing all this dumb shit nerfing weapons and this and that because some little PvP bitch is crying that it's OP, I'm still having issues with disconnecting from the server for no reason. So what's really important? I can tell you it's not randomizing who's teleported in the atheon fight or nerfing guns because a pvper cried about it. Get it right Bungie...

Personally I am (partially) glad the patch has arrived. At last the raid goes back to being challenging. I have never felt more bored or ashamed to be quite frank to hide behind a wall while someone knocked off the hardest enemy in the game. I agreed at first this was a clever strategy until the solo video came out. If one player can take out the boss that's a problem, definitely a bug and needed to be fixed. I strongly advise the next raid is really really tested. One issue I do have though is the opportunity taken by the devs on the portal aspect. The raid promotes teamwork and communication so why players cannot decide a relic team and a portal team is beyond me. I don't recall (could be wrong) this being pointed as the first raiders completed the VOG. Why now is this being pointed out and 'fixed'. To others complaining of the difficultly that's the point. You are allowed to stop and say "this is beyond me I'll lvl up and come back or give up". I am going to try completing it properly but it might be beyond the me and the team. I've cheated got vex etc. as I couldn't do the hard version. I was trying to get armour more than weapons given the loot system is still extremely frustrating especially given you can only run the normal raid once a week (I have more characters now to increase my chances) but that's another post for another day.

>[quote]"As a veteran of Cairo Station on Legendary in Halo, I had to admit that I had been carried through the Raid like luggage assigned to my clan. I did my own carrying later, but carrying had been done."[/quote] You see, here's the thing. On Cairo Station, you had roles you had to take, things you had to do. Were you a god on your first time through? No, you got your ass kicked in. However, once you got a hang of it, and understood it, there was no dragging, just you kicking Covenant ass. Switch on over to this raid, and it's RNG. You RANDOMLY get a shield on the Templar, which could lead you to an early grave if you are over a ledge, or on a grenade, or shooting a rocket. You RANDOMLY get teleported by Aethon, also killing you for lack of ammo, not having the equipment for the teleportation/minotaur on the desert-port, or not giving your teammate cover that he needed before you ported, causing him to die, no Time-gate opened because of that, followed by you being killed in turn. Finally, you RANDOMLY get garbage rewards in exchange. [i]I don't need this much Ascendent Energy, what don't you get?[/i] In Halo, after you learned, you knew what you were doing, you knew what and how to kill enemies, what they do, and when; you had a role to play, and you played it damned well. Furthermore, you knew what you were in for in terms of rewards. Let it be Rockets, a Sniper, or an Energy Sword, it was guaranteed. Halo 2's Legendary, which is supposed to be one of the hardest campaigns of all time, could be done with quite a bit of ease once you learned it. Why? Because you MASTERED it. Destiny's Raid, however, looks that dead in the end, flips it off, and orders you to follow RNGesus, else your heresy will be smited, and only Ascendent Materials will remain. Now I get the idea that "Everybody should be good at the Raid though!" Thing which people are spouting now. Think of it this way, let it be Halo, CoD, Battlefield, even Destiny. When you had a team together, do they really expect you to be able to do EVERYTHING just as good as they do? No, that's ridiculous to ask of people. Bungie straight up lying to our faces, saying "It was a glitch the entire time, we swear!" when they knew they had done that on purpose. Aethon becoming the living embodiment of RNG. Heck, even the [url=http://youtu.be/Pzyoxb9JV34]recent nerfs are disappointing.[/url] It's all sad, really. >Pic related

Fix the things that need fixing for balance and consistency.

The thing is that sometimes, without intending to do so, game developers inadvertently create some of the best parts of their games by mistake. Sometimes the things that bring people together, the things that are remembered, are these errors, bugs, exploits if you want to call them that. In Eve Online, I created warp-to-0 bookmarks. I had a catalogue inventory of probably 5000 bookmarks which I made for my corporation and shared when they needed them. It was actually kind of awesome, though I highly doubt it was the intentions of CCP when they made the game. In SWTOR the rakghoul plague gets mentioned almost every time people I know talk about the game. Entering Old Ironforge and other unfinished and unintended places while exploring in WoW was what made that world come to life for a lot of people Destiny has seen these unintended things that the community has picked up on, shared, and collaborated because of since launch. First there was the loot cave, then the raid checkpoint sharing and boss pushing. Destiny has been a game which has enabled skilled players to help their less skilled friends to a high degree, and you know what: That's a good thing when Destiny is also a game that has brought dedicated computer gamers over to the PS4 and XB1, picking up a controller perhaps for the first time in a serious game. You cannot expect those people to solo a nightfall right off the bat. When you made the plaque in the former loot cave you acknowledged that it is part of Destiny's short history. Something players will remember. And sure, some people are annoyed about the boss pushing but it has added to the Destiny community. People have made friends because of it. Since there's no trade system in Destiny, your unintended "exploit" has made generous, helpful players shine. Meanwhile Atheon bug fixes like the portal bug my own, non-"exploiting" clan has been so plauged by are nowhere to be seen. (actually, I would argue that using terrain and your character's skills in a combination that is intended for your class to be able to do is not an exploit, it may not be intended for Atheon to fall off the edge, but it is not an exploit, it is a different way to solve a puzzle using all readily available factors) I fail to understand why you did this because while intellectually it makes sense to want a boss fight to work as intended, you should have been more careful about removing things that was actually contributing to the community of Destiny. Something that kept people playing when bugs made it extra hard to complete things the intended way. These "exploits" WERE your baby bumpers. They made the experience bearable for a larger percentage of the community. Carbine JUST lost 60 employees. They recently saw a huge decline in the Wildstar player population. They saw bugs, wrong focus on what to patch first as well as a huge focus on hardcore players and communities backfire before their eyes. This JUST happened, Bungie, and it sucks to see a company lose that many employees. Don't make the same mistakes, don't alienate the large group of your community that don't have the time or skills to finish the HM raid when there is so little else to do in the game for those same people. I hope it works out, I do. Not just because I like Destiny and have fun playing it, but also because seeing game company after game company reduce staff or can projects or have their dreams gutted is awful, and I don't want that for you, I really don't. You have grand plans for this game and I want them to come to life, but you have to read between the lines of what your community is saying. What matters most at this time in Destiny's life? Keeping people playing. Keeping the community's interest. We who play the game need to have another goal to achieve waiting for us around the next corner and if you remove the ability to acheve those goals from large parts of your community the game population will decline. Please consider focusing on bugs that prevent people from playing rather than bugs that enable more people to access your content?

Reminds me of the original version of Final Fantasy 14 during beta. The beta test players repeatedly said the throttled leve system wouldn't work, but the devs released the game and stated they wouldn't be changing the system. Bungie will learn someday.