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Edited by DeeJ:
10/28/2014 3:38:45 PM
3117
Thoughts and Opinions about Atheon's Revenge.
So, the update just went live. Atheon can no longer be pushed off his platform. He'll also select people at random to be thrown across time. He's a real bastard, eh?
I talked a lot to the developers about your opinions on the matter. You don't want to be selected at random. You want to choose who gets to fetch the Relic under fire from those nasty Oracles. I spoke on your behalf. Your voice was heard. We discussed your concerns.
I even said "Why not just change Hard Mode and leave Easy Mode alone?"
I was told "The Raid is never supposed to be easy."
At that point, I recalled all the times I stood and delivered the line "...the most challenging encounter we've ever created." It was hard to disagree. As a veteran of Cairo Station on Legendary in Halo, I had to admit that I had been carried through the Raid like luggage assigned to my clan. I did my own carrying later, but carrying had been done.
This is an activity that was designed to be undertaken by a hardcore team that is ready and willing to adapt and improvise to changing battle conditions. Like the moment when the Templar shields random players, the Final Boss was supposed to be extremely dangerous. While we've been working on some of the other things for which you've been asking (i.e. better exotics, voice chat in matchmaking, more bounties), the designers who made the Raid have plugged the holes that you showed them.
If you got in on the ground floor of this thing, we thank you. If you understand the mechanics for how to beat Atheon, it's still a thing you can teach your friends. If you're all up to the challenge, the Raid is waiting for you.
Let's talk about it. Please sound off in this thread, and know that I'll be reading.
English
#Destiny
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After posting in destinylfg, gamefaqs and even reddit looking for raid groups and getting passed over because of no mic or no experience. Making the raid more difficult now just shuts me out because now experience in all aspects is going to be required for every group going forward now. I might as well just give up trying to look for a raid group. Thanks for making the raid more difficult after release and shutting me out from ever hoping to get one of those occasional groups that might have decided to take one person that's new and showing em the ropes. They were rare to begin with, they'll be nonexistent now. All I even care about are the elemental primary weapons, and now I'll never even be able to hope I get one some day. I'll probably be just like everyone else, log in tuesday for the nightfall/weekly strike and never touch the game until the next week.
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There's a difference between "fixing an issue" and changing a mechanic to artificially raise the difficulty of the raid. At least have the decency to call it what it is.
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I just figured it out guys, Activision used RNG to select the devs responsible for making decisions. Sadly, RNGesus has failed us again.
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Ive seen some complaints here about the randomizing. Couldnt agree more. Havent yet beaten Aetheon, my friends could use slightly faster reflexes, but im the only one of my crew who really knows how to use the relics. One other guy kinda gets it, and everyone else just freaks out. Omigawd! I have relic! What do?!? Anyway, point is, relic carrier is my role, thats what im good at, thats how i help my team the most. Emphasis on team. So with random teleports now, that role is useless. All i am now is another gun to chunk bullets at the boss and theres gonna be alot of failure going on while all of my team members have to learn how to use the relic well and what to do in the portals.
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awesome patch, now no one can even play! i guess making the game harder worked, because i can't seem to beat anything now.
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I don't like what your doing to this game at the moment. It feels like you had no idea what you want this game to be when it launched and now you make the problems even worse. One example to show you whtat's wrong with Atheons Revenge. One pushed him off the edge one time on hard and got a helmet or the Vex, another one has beaten him on hard without pushing him already four times but got only useless stuff. Now that you port everyone random he may face difficulties beating Atheon again. His effort is already bigger than the firt guys one, but he may never get the good stuff. That makes it frustrating and random, not fun and challanging. Another problem is that the random teleporting doesn't make it harder, it only takes out strategy and teamplay in favor of random elements and the gear of each single player. If you don't like teamplay these changs re pretty good if you enjoy teamplay ... ;) All this issues could have been prevented by appropriate testing nd QA. Think about the pillars at the templar's place. If really none of your testers had idea to jump on this pillars they definitely aren't the right persons for this job. It was my first idea to jump on them when I saw this place. You shouldn't change the difficulty or kind of a Raid after lunch to keep everything comparable! I don't say tht everything will be perfect right from the start, but better keep it to prevent frustration. But the most importnt thing is: random elements are not equal to hard or challanging they are just causing balancing problems and frustration! Don't have much confidence left for this game. Don't know how long I'll keep on playing it as all this unsolved problems and the lack of content may never get better. Know so many players who left disappointed by the bad updates and the lack of contnt. Not really a good start for the next 10 years. I will not buy a Destiny game on launch again, I'll wait to see if they've learnt their lesson or not.
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There's no strategy to the final boss now it's all luck of the draw to who gos into the portals to what you get I understand it's supposed to be hard but I didn't know being hard ment it's all luck and Radom crap
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So many wonderfully written posts sighting your comments about "No one way to play..." Or "Become Legend..." I'm not really sure what you're doing. We've become to strong so you take our might. We've become to smart so you change the rules. We've begged for more immersion, more in game story, you respond with a reduction in strategy. We in fact can't play our way. Fix glitches, that's fine, I'm all for beating a game "legitimately" but to applaud the first teams for their ingenuity and then scold those who follow is asinine. Have we come to far to fast? If that's the case, that's your failure, not ours! You want unit cohesion and then tell us that's not the "correct" method. You claim that the month long endeavor has been the result of a coding glitch. I think I liked you better before you were so transparent. Before I presumed you were trying for greatness, now I honestly believe your trying to slow our progress. You're rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. That didn't end so well for them. I'm all for tweaking the game but adding artificial difficulty for the sake of adding it is an insult to the community and honestly to yourselves. If we bested your best, then make the next encounter better, don't hinder those yet to come for your short comings, you may find they'll choose not to come. You're better than this, this can't be your vision, prove me wrong. I really don't have an advantage, I've already bought the DLC, but I don't have to buy the next.
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Today i joined a group of 5 people ive never met and we did the entire raid. Atheon was definitely a pain, but the problem we encountered were bugs. More than one occasion it would only take 2 people and leave 4 alive. And once it teleported 3 of us to Venus and 3 to mars at the same time causing a wipe. We were able to overcome these obstacles and we beat him (on normal). I just wanted to say what we encountered. Good hunting Guardians
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Screw the crap with the raid FIX YOUR SERVERS I get nothing but monkey and weasel
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All you need to know is bungie considers bugs to be anything that lets you get to endgame and expose the lack of content. Thats priority one at bungie. If what you want conflicts with that priority, they dont give a toss what you think. Thats right, they think the community is this stupid. As long as the numbers playing the game at mission control are acceptable, they dont care. So everything you post here is wasting ypur time, assuming youre still playing. I took a week off because i was burned out on the repitition, played last couple of days, had some fun. But if bungie has no shame about giving the community the finger, guess im stopping again. I think you have to hate yourself a bit to not get tired of this hamster wheel slot machine, especially with the cherry being the devs are wasting everyones time making them think theyre listening.
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Where in the real world is lets say a sniper asked to fix a tank? Or the tank mechanic asked to fly a plane? In the real world people are assigned a job based on their personal skills, that way the only adapting that needs to be done is for a given instance to support another in his job. I will even apply this same real world theory to the game. In my raid group I solo defend and open both portals in the Atheon fight. My defending team consists of 2 hunters and myself(Titan). The attacking team consists of 2 warlocks and a Titan. Now each role is very spacific and requires each person to specialize for that role. For me I specialize in killing trash mobs and keeping myself alive. My 2 hunter defenders specialize in boss damage. Now there have been times that I have gone down due to a bad jump related to latency in these instances the one hunter (the once on that spacific portal) falls to opening the portal but still dpsing the boss. The away team is also informed of my death and they clear supplicants when they exit. This only works if boss is about to die on hard mode which usually is before the third teleport on Hard. With the changes that strategy is void. Now I am capable of using the relic but one of our worlocks is flawless with it. And by him getting the relic he ensures success on that front. I can do oricals easily everyone in the group can do oricals. But 3 members of my team can't or don't know how to use the relic due to disabilities. Due to the randomized teleporting I now have to tell those 3 individuals that we can't run the hard mode raid because if they are teleported then we have to whip because they don't know or can't use the relic because of disabilities. This one change literally cuts off a portion of the game from a fair sized chuck of the community, and all the try hards can say is "adapt" when that is a form of discrimination towards disabled and handicapped individuals, nor does it promote strategy and tactics in a team based setting. There are other and better ways to make the Atheon fight more challenging. For example adding in hobgoblin snipers or pretorians to the "present" room/Atheon's room.
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As far as the Atheon push fix, I'm okay with it. I have cheesed the hard mode twice and found near zero satisfaction dying and waiting for a warlock to throw two grenades at his feet. The random selection for the portal team bugs me, as well as most of my raid team. We spend hours piecing together the best three man team to go through (all ended up being hunters BTW). This change really wasn't necessary, as the team dynamics needed in the first place were a challenge enough. I'm all for making the raid hard, but not at the sacrifice of a well planned strategy. At this point we might as well incorporate matchmaking and call it a deal (sarcasm)
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I can adapt, I've played the raid deej I've played all roles, but what gets me is I don't always have the same team, I often have to go to the forums just to find a team to get myself through, I can do every part of the raid no problem as long as I have a team who can cooperate, get us some matchmaking man come on I need a team here, not everyone's schedules match up
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I'd rather have seen intelligent changes to the raid, than cheap work-arounds. Instead of making the sniper platforms inexplicable immersion breaking death zones, tackle the problem from the Templar's perspective. What does the Templar do to safeguard against it? Instead of adding invisible barriers to prevent Atheon from being knocked off the cliff, tackle the problem from Atheon's perspective. What does Atheon do to prevent himself from being driven off a cliff? That is how proper game design is done. What has been done here is sheer lazy incompetence. Bungie should be ashamed.
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Monkey
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Deej, you know what I find funny, the fact your developers are patching knock offs and loot caves but still can't fix the end of atheon being glitched. Or your horrible RNG system rewarding horrible players.
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13 RepliesI got to be honest, as someone who has completed the raid since week 2 (when it opened) and has had to deal with tons of errors this pretty much makes me want to stop playing just because of the Atheon 'fix'. For clarification I don't mean the cheese, that is great to fix, I mean the random teleporting of people. It flies in the face of everything they told us they wanted the encounter to be and simply looks like "oh to many people are completing the raid, now it looks like we don't have enough content, we better do something to slow people down". When there is a list of other encounter breaking bugs (causing the group to wipe or severely impacting their ability to complete a phase) then this is just unacceptable. In case anyone wanted to see the list: http://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/2kin8l/if_bungie_is_going_to_fix_the_glitch_where_only/ I love most everything about Destiny, I don't mind most of peoples 'big' issues with the game, but this pisses me off to no end. (probably due to my own Design background, this is just a BAD and Lazy encounter design, it doesn't help to facilitate team work, planning or strategy.) Here you yourselves talked about over coming things with teamwork: http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/07/30/destiny-the-endgame-is-only-the-beginning-ign-first This adds nothing to help with those goals, in fact it actively works against them. Not to mention all the other balance issues and fixes that Bungie has said were coming but we still haven't seen. Then there is the fact that this is a social game, with no match making in the raid, something I stood behind and still do. However I love helping players who are 25, or 26 thorugh the raid. You have taken that ability away from us, we can no longer plan out roles for people for the Atheon phase which means you just need to get lucky with the RNG if you have low levels with you. Why not make the raid locked until 27 or 28 if this was your intent. You want a social game but don't want match making, you had that in Sherpa and now you just killed it. I know I won't be taking low level players through any more because of this change, it just isn't worth the time. Also why have different classes? If you want it to be random what we do in a raid encounter then who cares about class balance? There are so many reasons I can argue against this change that I can only come to the conclusion you just simply wanted to artificially extend the length of the available content. I have defended this game from day one and have stood by YOU Bungie waiting for you to make good on your word. This is at, I am at my limit. This patch probably cost you a good chunk of people who were ready to buy all your DLC content and go along for the 10 year ride, but if this is how you handle your community feed back then I can longer defend you or stand by your product.
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O_O There's a lot of logic being posted in here. Just keep in mind guys, DeeJ isn't Jason Jones or the higher ups. Hopefully the DEVS actually visit this thread. Cause honestly it shouldn't be just one persons responsibility to convey ALL to the DEVs. ;o)
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idk what RnG is but however you control the drops I think it's a bit biased towards ascendant shards. That is almost the only thing I've ever gotten from the raid. I wouldn't mind so much if I got energy as well but it's only been shards. Check this out please
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1 ReplyUnlike most people, I think random teleports require more skill, co-ordination, communication, planning and strategy. HOWEVER. As the old saying goes: if it ain't broken, don't fix it. To allow people weeks of developing a certain strategy only to tell them it wasn't supposed to be that way seems annoying and unnecessary when there were already some deliberate and fun tactics in place. In my opinion, once you released it and saw it was working a certain way and people were planning and executing it, it should have been left alone as a happy accident. If the bug wasn't picked up in testing and it wasn't breaking the raid ... don't punish us. Keep up the good work =]
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Maybe if we could do it with out getting monkey errors every two minutes then I might be able to voice an opinion but you fixed the server right sure....
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Edited by DOC SAVAGE247: 10/28/2014 9:01:04 PMThanks DESTINY, for taking the whole TEAM CONCEPT out of the game. I don't care about the "push" glitch and have never used it, it takes the fun out of the game by doing that. Now that you've totally "hamstrung" the VOG by randomizing the 3 time jumpers, I just throw up my hands. This game has a great potential, but sadly is being torn apart from within. With COD ADVANCED WARFARE, ASSASSIN'S CREED, MASTER CHIEF, and other team based shooters releasing shortly...Destiny will follow TITANFALL as one of the greatest games that ALMOST WAS.
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Really could care less about the randomness or the raid, I wish you guys would actually fix/look at stuff you promised weeks ago like the exotic buffs/adjustments, and or add in some decent PVE story content that isn't just an old bounty disguised as a new rep system.
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Too bad I get the monkey error every 5 minutes.
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Ok so Deej if you are apparently reading this i want you to relay this to the devs. Adding randomness is not increasing difficulty, it's only artificial difficulty and the devs need to get this through they're skulls. NO ONE likes artificial difficulty, it only serves to annoy players! If you want to increase difficulty find actual ways to increase it and by the way this patch proves once again players have no freedom in how they play.
