I don't even know if this will be productive. Or who's going to read these two thousand or more replies. Just... if I could suggest that all of this player angst has a root? We didn't get the game we thought we were getting in the first place---as someone who enjoyed it, I say that and then admit that I played it anyway. Please, don't convince yourself that early time played numbers justify everything. I keep playing because I badly want this game to... I don't know, become what I thought I bought in the first place. I really think it could be that, and I'm really just bargaining to get something as great as what was marketed. My point here? People are so disappointed that everything will get torn apart now. And those of us who hoped that maybe end game delivered are trickling into end game steadily to find that it does not. So that hurts. As fans, that hurts us. Then changes are made, but they're the sort of changes that make the end game more difficult in a way that isn't really responsive to forming a good team and getting through the raid. Now I can't get through it with anyone who's learning without the already dead boring grind taking even longer. What the community has been asking for is: Exotics that feel exotic (I realize if they were actually 'good' they would just get called OP. I don't blame you for taking your time on this one.) Content. Content. Content. We wouldn't be so upset about a cheesy raid, or raid difficulty changing, if there was something to DO in your game. But I love this game, I really do, because I want it to turn into what it should have been in the first place, and I still feel obligated to point out that we see the glaring chunks taken out of the game and the story that doesn't even try to tell us anything and the complete lack of missions. The open world that gives us no reason to explore it, the resource system that is obviously just a time wasting grind (you want to add difficulty, why not add some STAKES into resource gathering? You die in the 'wild', you lose half of your resource items and all of the ones you've gathered since you landed. ADD TRADING at least for resources so that people who like to gather need those of us who like killing to keep them safe. So that being GOOD AT CHEST FINDING means something. So that being GOOD AT CLEARING ENEMIES means something.) ...Bungie people are so upset because everyone is wondering where you game is. Where is your game? The basics you have are great. I love it. But you need to understand that this Raid angst isn't about the Raid, it's about there being nothing else that even felt sort of like it delivered so all expectations are centered there. You did not deliver. You didn't. We're still here. Deliver. PLEASE. Trickle down doesn't work. Making the Raid more time consuming will not sate the Raiders or anyone else. This game needs the meat it should have had. If it doesn't have it because it will be in DLC, tell us that so we can go do something else. If it'll never be there, tell us that so we can go do something else. If it's coming, really coming, then tell us that so I can stop looking like a crazy idiot for still thinking that you've got something up your sleeve. You're running out of time. And I don't have to explain to you why I don't have to explain any more clearly than that.

Honestly it doesn't make much of a difference because my fire team can have any member pick up the shields . We have all done it different weeks. But to be honest i wish they would have left the encounter alone and focused making new content. Why not just make a new challenging boss with a different way to fight it? Instead of constantly changing the way players fight a single boss why not focus on making a variety of different end game bosses that require different skills?

Okay, so I'm glad you are actually talking to the community. I mean that out of respect, not sarcasm. It's wonderful that you're interacting with us now. I for one, hate this new patch. Not because it's too hard, or because I'm incompetent, but because the raid was already pretty decently hard. You fixed it to where people can't push Atheon off, which was a great thing and made it even more challenging. Making us randomly teleport, was a bad idea. The raid is suppose to be very hard, I get that, but when you've reached a level that makes the bar on the level selection green, it's suppose to be easy for you. The devs should have left at least Normal mode alone. I know you told them that, but they need to reconsider. It seems like the devs aren't really caring what we have to say. They want what they want, yet they told us we could play the game the way we wanted. They said a lot of things that contradict with what they have laid out for us. It's like they are saying: "Yeah, we told you that, but it's it true. We just wanted you to buy the game." Now, I know that's not true, but it seems like it. I've been a BUNGIE fan since Halo 3. That was really when I started getting into FPS games. From then on, it was love at first sight for each new game. My favorite Halo game, has to be Reach. It was the pinnacle of perfection. Yeah, there were bugs and junk, but you show me a game that doesn't have bugs and exploits. I'm asking you to tell the devs: "Listen to those of us who aren't crying for a nerf or buff or patch every 5 minutes. Focus on fixing the net code errors and the fluidity of PvP. Fix the guns so that they are as they were before, only make the rest of the guns AS good. I'm sorry for such a long post, but I'm very passionate about my games, and I want you to save this one for us. Do that for us, and we will love you forever more. Thanks DeeJ. Have a beautiful day.

Can we guardians get baby bumpers from falling off as well?

The truth is: If Atheon started out selecting people at random, people wouldn't be complaining about anything. They got so used to having it be easy, they now feel entitled to it. I'm fine with it, even though I'm ALWAYS the relic holder and we could get Atheon done first try with me as it. I like a challenge and raids aren't supposed to be a breeze for common folk

You ain't gonna read 2000 replies which some are 12 pages long with notes and a bibliography.... Hope you got a dozen people to help you read these posts.

Maybe you shouldn't have released Destiny without doing some QA, since all these things aren't how you guys intended them to be.

Hey Deej. I'm glad to know that the Bungie team is able to communicate and help out the fans who have input for the game. I have lots of concerns myself. A lot of people don't like the random teleports because that will put new raiders on the spot and continuously cause wipes if they aren't sure of what they're doing. People are wanting to help lower level raiders simply because the veterans are able to take control and guide them through. If you had 3 30's and 3 26's in a raid together on Atheon, there is a chance all 3 26's will get sent in and probably cause a wipe due to either confusion or lack of firepower. This eventually leads to blind luck aiding your victory. Raids should not be about luck, but more so about skill and knowledge of the raid. But if your aim is to make the raid more challenging for veterans and noobs alike, then I can understand the random tp's. My real concerns are about lag, stats, and class superiority/deficiency. The lag seems to take over during some games. It's apparent that whoever is the host, or whoever is lagging, has the clear advantage. Countless times I have seen someone teleporting around the map getting kills. I have even seen someone stand in front of me, take a full clip of my bullets, and then 2 seconds later I end up dead and they are half way across the map. Or it's vice versa, I give them a full clip and nothing happens, they disappear, and then 2 seconds later I get credited with the kill. It's kinda weird that there is lag compensation for the laggy people. My opinion is just to kick the laggy ones out so we can play normally without any weird skipping around and disappearing. Not to mention upon death, you hold X to revive yourself and you end up sitting there for more than 10 seconds waiting for the revive... usually I end up just going back to orbit because of how frustrating it is. The armor stat seems completely useless in the game. I can see and feel the difference if I raise my agility (i'm able to jump up on that one red banner in the tower lol) and I can see the difference in health regen if I raise my recovery. However, I see no difference in the armor stat. Maybe there is a difference for squishier characters (voidwalker warlock or hunter) but for the Defender Titan, a class that is specifically raised around being tanky, I don't see a difference - especially in the Crucible. I've seen those with agility in Crucible outstrafe me, those in Crucible who ALMOST die to my shots, run into a corner, and then come out 3 seconds later with full health and shield, but I don't feel any difference in stacking armor. I still die 1 shot to Fusion rifles and Shotguns, I still get wrecked by any AR/Scout/HC. As a Defender Titan, I think I should be able to withstand a few more bullets than anyone else, including sunsingers. And yes, I know the Ward of Dawn is able to block every bullet, it feels like it's just a self-trap. People catch on and they eventually just wait out the timer, and then launch in massive damage when it goes away. I just feel like there is an imbalance when it comes to Def Titans in PvP. They don't really have much of a toolkit and usually I just end up sticking to my guns and outgunning people. Even with the Ward of Dawn (which can be destroyed by almost any other super) doesn't feel like much of a help unless everyone on the opposite is dry of a super charged ability. Point is that some classes (cough warlocks) have an incredible toolkit what with gap closing blink, ranged melees, survivability, ranged supers (that destroy you in the Ward of Dawn regardless), while the Defender lacks in almost every aspect. There aren't many Titans that play, and although the Defender is a great asset in VoG or any Nightfall/Heroic, the only way I feel competitively active in PvP is if I play Striker. I feel as if Defender Titans definitely have the short end of the stick here. Now these are just my personal feelings on the matter, I'm not asking for a buff or a nerf, I'm just asking for balance within the classes. Defenders get outburned at every turn it seems like, and there is an apparent choice as to what class people prefer to play. If you actually took the time out to read this, then thank you. I do like the Vault of Glass a lot. It reminds me of the old World of Warcraft days when my guild and I logged in the day of the new patches and we would all go explore the new raids and dungeons and just be in awe of all the amazing things and scenery that existed. Making it more challenging is something that a lot of people won't agree with, but people will adapt and learn to master it the way it should be. The game does get kind of boring though once you're leveled. Once you knock out the nightfall, weekly/daily heroic, and VoG, there is really nothing else to do but wait the week out, log in back on Friday to see what Xur is selling, and then log back out. This is primarily due to lack of content (which people are exploding about what with the locked DLC and areas that are installed but are being sold back to players). But I hope in due time everything will be balanced, things that need to be fixed will be fixed, and things that won't will continue to prosper.

I'd [i]hope[/i] community isn't overlooked on other points of interest. If a note could be left on the fridge in Bungies break room for the developers to see what they have been missing on the forums while working hard on the game and it's fixes.... I'd include these in the note. Because it's "about community, with community, for community". So please put this note "post" on your fridge in your break room. Thanks. http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/lllwarchildlll/DESTINY%20POLL%20PICS/0D3232B4-5ED9-4273-AFCF-C06764AF88DE.jpg http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/lllwarchildlll/DESTINY%20POLL%20PICS/1B9849FC-B35D-4209-B803-A039A518D4AB.jpg http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/lllwarchildlll/DESTINY%20POLL%20PICS/F3236FF1-E918-4247-AD01-E42C598F4617.jpg http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/lllwarchildlll/DESTINY%20POLL%20PICS/4106ABBA-4898-44E7-BE65-EC6777FE04B3.jpg http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/lllwarchildlll/DESTINY%20POLL%20PICS/7935DD5F-C272-431D-B449-1FFDD7193AB2.jpg http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/lllwarchildlll/DESTINY%20POLL%20PICS/C4187A66-8D07-4EAB-908C-996400261615.jpg http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/lllwarchildlll/DESTINY%20POLL%20PICS/5373EB5E-3C8E-4968-85BE-8CCDE2B48B77.jpg Signed, "Archon" (long before this game was made)

They broke the game D:

I'm glad that exploitation has been taken care of

Hi, Deej. You get a lot heat, and while you thrive through feedback, know that this update will get what you want done.

I would like you to deliver a message to Devs DeeJ. Would you like to keep your jobs? ;) Because with the way things are going, Bungie won't exist past Destiny 2. Think about it.

I don't care about the Atheon exploit getting fixed. It should have been fixed regardless. However, this random teleporting "fix" was bullshit and you know it (which is good). I wouldn't have so much of a problem with it if the devs actually fixed all the other bugs in the raid. Here are a few of them: 1. Fix the sound cutting out at the conflux checkpoint. That shit is annoying. 2. The Praetorian in the "venus" portal at atheon is a zombie. Sometimes I kill him and he comes back to life (with most of his health). This bug results in wipes and needs to get fixed. 3. Sometimes the teleporters/gates at Atheon do not work. This needs to be fixed. 4. Only two players get teleported at Atheon. Those four bugs should have been fixed long before the devs (that supposedly care about the community) pulled this shit. No one in the community wanted random teleports at atheon. I can only assume that the devs thought that unless they put in extra difficulty in the raid, (the only end game content) this game would not last till DLC for most players. But you see DeeJ, now most of the players that have not completed the raid will not want to now because of the random teleports. The devs have shot themselves in the foot with this "fix". Also, where is my Mythoclast rebuff? The devs certainly nerfed the shit out of it pretty quickly, so where is my rebuff? And how about the Bad Juju and Thorn buff? Where is that? Can we get a concrete ETA on those?

So basically Bungie didn't even consider it. I actually feel kind of bad for DeeJ.

10 year MMO vet and that excuse is bullshit. It's basically breaking raid design conventions by buffing a boss post-release (and having the balls to call it a bug fix). My raid team will be more then good enough to over come this "fix" but it's an extremely dangerous president you've set here. This is why you start out with bosses too hard and then tune them down, you [b]never[/b] tune up, that creates a gear gap. What's worse is this wasn't just a tuning issue, you've fundamentally changed the strategy for a boss, that breaks every convention in raid design basically ever. Seriously it's like none of you have actually played in a raid before and you're just going off of what other developers have told you.

Soooo you're basically saying bungie ignored its fan base? Not surprised

Is this the disconnect update because no one can play with out getting disconnected now. "Great job"

So are you the speaker for bungie and the listener huh. Do you have enough power to enforce a change or is it something you have to run by them 1st and let them consider it? Telling us you hear us and saying bungie or Activision does what they want to do says alot. You get paid to deliver messages. I know you can't say what you want to us and i get that. At least you tried.

After posting in destinylfg, gamefaqs and even reddit looking for raid groups and getting passed over because of no mic or no experience. Making the raid more difficult now just shuts me out because now experience in all aspects is going to be required for every group going forward now. I might as well just give up trying to look for a raid group. Thanks for making the raid more difficult after release and shutting me out from ever hoping to get one of those occasional groups that might have decided to take one person that's new and showing em the ropes. They were rare to begin with, they'll be nonexistent now. All I even care about are the elemental primary weapons, and now I'll never even be able to hope I get one some day. I'll probably be just like everyone else, log in tuesday for the nightfall/weekly strike and never touch the game until the next week.