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Edited by DeeJ:
10/28/2014 3:38:45 PM
3117
Thoughts and Opinions about Atheon's Revenge.
So, the update just went live. Atheon can no longer be pushed off his platform. He'll also select people at random to be thrown across time. He's a real bastard, eh?
I talked a lot to the developers about your opinions on the matter. You don't want to be selected at random. You want to choose who gets to fetch the Relic under fire from those nasty Oracles. I spoke on your behalf. Your voice was heard. We discussed your concerns.
I even said "Why not just change Hard Mode and leave Easy Mode alone?"
I was told "The Raid is never supposed to be easy."
At that point, I recalled all the times I stood and delivered the line "...the most challenging encounter we've ever created." It was hard to disagree. As a veteran of Cairo Station on Legendary in Halo, I had to admit that I had been carried through the Raid like luggage assigned to my clan. I did my own carrying later, but carrying had been done.
This is an activity that was designed to be undertaken by a hardcore team that is ready and willing to adapt and improvise to changing battle conditions. Like the moment when the Templar shields random players, the Final Boss was supposed to be extremely dangerous. While we've been working on some of the other things for which you've been asking (i.e. better exotics, voice chat in matchmaking, more bounties), the designers who made the Raid have plugged the holes that you showed them.
If you got in on the ground floor of this thing, we thank you. If you understand the mechanics for how to beat Atheon, it's still a thing you can teach your friends. If you're all up to the challenge, the Raid is waiting for you.
Let's talk about it. Please sound off in this thread, and know that I'll be reading.
English
#Destiny
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1 ReplyDeej you ass clown! here's a short read: -fix raid glitches -give us more story content -introduce trading -introduce gambling -introduce sparrow racing -fix cryptroll (useless engrams after lvl 10) -fix gunbitch (useless guns after lvl 10) -fix Eva le'oldtrick (that bitch has the same shit since the game launched! Like WTF!) -fix ghostfacekiller (like wtf is that ass hats job)
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1 ReplyHey DeeJ, I think you forgot to add, "Sometimes he won't teleport anyone or sometimes he'll teleport only one or two players." before the, "He's a real bastard, eh?" part. Seriously though, and all jokes aside. This is a real problem and is ruining a lot of raid attempts. Especially on hard. Out of I'd say ten teleports, he actually teleported three of us at once 3 times. The straw that broke the camel's back was the last one where he didn't teleport anyone. We had him down to a slither of health. My team and I got so frustrated earlier because of this that we just said, "-blam!- it."
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Edited by Aaron Teriyaki: 11/5/2014 7:13:11 AMI've never encountered so many bugs in my life, you guys have really screwed this one up, so many glitches on Atheon i don't know where to begin, stop fixing shit that doesn't need to be fixed, get your head out of your asses and do something that actually helps us. Nothing personal towards you Deej
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Ummm... weaksauce. I mean... I know how hard you all work. I can appreciate that. But I also know how messed up this game was at release. I know that the internal people did not want to release this game as is. That being said... go back to the drawing board. All that Bungie is doing is making a bad situation worse. This level of disappointment can't be covered up with fancy facts and figures. If your customers are not happy, your business will not grow. This game is equal to the original reboot of Superman. It needs to be rebooted again.
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Edited by Fingernageldreck: 11/5/2014 7:05:12 AMThe random teleport thing is ok, now everyone should know each phase which isnt bad. But the bugs in that boss fight are quite many... I hope you guys manage to fix them. Beginning from the ammo loose if you equip armor that increases ammo capacity and die with it, to the praetorians that should die but suddenly are back at 50% health. And all the other bugs that have been posted countless times already. So you should be aware of them.
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So, um, DeeJ? Are you there buddy? I know we've had our differences, but I think I'm ready to move ahead and be friends again... ... but only if you actually push the development team to fix all of the problems they caused us. It's not me, it's you. The ball is in your court, it always has been. I'll be waiting DeeJ. Don't leave me in the darkness.
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This was a great response. Bump
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2 RepliesIs he suppose to teleport dead players? Or just one person? Or a person he puts in a death bubble so they die instantly for leaving it? Because damn you guys really made this thing a challenge.
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Seems to me that all you're interested in is extending the miniscule amount of endgame content by any means necessary. Queens Wrath gear being broken down into shards? Nope, we want it to take you longer. Players jumping into legitimate areas of the Raid where snipers are allowed to spawn? Nope, we want it to take you longer. Teams actually organising and assigning roles in a role playing game to take down Atheon? Nope, we want it to take you longer. Baby bumpers and fixing legitimate exploits are fine. But don't insult our intelligence by claiming certain fixes are for any other reason than to stretch out the paper-thin endgame in the hopes of keeping the community coming back until the DLC hits. I fully expect the Dark Below to be a tedious grind of epic proportions to hit 32. Unfortunately I won't be purchasing it as the amount of content it contains won't make the game any less repetitive than it already is, especially at the extortionate amount of money you're asking for it. What I will say is that you have made a game with incredible shooting mechanics. It's honestly a miracle I've spent this long playing such a tiny pool of missions on repeat and it's a testament to the gameplay you have created. The problem is you've dropped a game with heavy MMO elements into a game with the content of your average annual shooter, and the two do not mix. A lot of us can see that you're on damage limitation, trying to mask the fact that there's [i]just not an awful lot to do[/i] in the wonderful world you have created. I only wish that you'd have focused on providing steady stream of activities to keep us interested long-term, rather than making the current ones more time consuming.
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95 RepliesEdited by Austacker: 10/29/2014 12:32:45 AMAdding the bumpers to ensure the last boss cannot be cheesed is a change that definitely needed to happen and I agree with it. But let's take a step back and realise why people would actively cheese the final boss instead of participating in the experience to begin with. Move aside the fact that apart from the raid, there's very little to actually do in Destiny right now. Also push aside the fact that getting the 'hard cap' of 30 is also gated by the raid. We have a situation right now where about 10% of the playerbase have completed the raid to date. 1 in 10 Destiny players have completed the raid. Now considering you're in an environment right now where players are disgruntled by the lack of content and the gating of participation in content like the raid being both hard and unable to be supported by match making, I ask you completely honestly just how this benefits the gameplay experience for the Destiny community at large by upping the difficulty even further. Even if it was never the intention of the Devs for the game to be as 'hard' as it was, the fact is that said experience was put on the table and given to the playerbase to experience as it was for about a month. Now fixing a straight up glitch with pushing the boss off a ledge I can certainly agree with, it renders the entire experience moot. But arbitarily changing the boss fight mechanics without consultation with the playerbase and worse, doing so anyway when you know straight up the playerbase opposes the change begs the question - just WHO are Bungie designing this game for? Because sure as hell, these changes won't increase the liklihood of players wanting to participate further in the limited content you already have. Most players who have already cheesed the boss and gotten their drops will now not bother with the raid. What's the point? Those who are yet to do the raid will be pulled out of their comfort zone simply on the whim of Devs and knowing the upcoming changes to Iron Banner will give them an easier path to the magic 30, probably won't bother anyway. So who do these changes appeal to? The hardcore crowd who are bored with the raid already and seek another challenge? Just what percentage of the playerbase does that entail? 2%? 5%? It seems like there is a serious disconnect still very much present between your playerbase expectations and that of the internal development team. It's all fine, fair and good to say you're on 'our side' Deej and that our voices are being 'heard' but it's a completely moot issue if that despite general consensus disagreeing with changes like this, the Dev team are going to completely ignore it and impose their own changes anyway. That gives the community no confidence in the feedback loop at all and if anything, completely undermines it. Destiny right now is in a tough spot. It's going to have issues maintaining the playerbase it has with so many big AAA titles on the way over this coming holiday season. Apart from content design and delivery, Bungie faces a pretty big PR struggle right now not only maintaining the interest from the core playerbase, but also their trust that moving ahead they actually matter in the ongoing development of this game. Gamers now have a lot of choice at their fingertips and it's very easy for them to say this is too hard and they can just move on. Many aspects of Destiny's design right now (whether you're talking FPS, RPG or MMO) have strong competition in the market and all of them seek to take your playerbase away, offering a better gameplay experience without the hassle. Right now isn't the time for Bungie to throw you to the wolves with PR speak, only for their core team to say 'screw the mob' and just deliver what THEY feel is good anyway, even despite loud protest it's a bad design decision. Bungie is at a cross roads right now. They need to at least show they are responding to the community, a community that largely feels let down by the release of Destiny that massively over promised and under delivered. If Destiny is to survive looking forward, the team behind the magic needs to drop some of that attitude and ego and start taking this feedback really to heart. This change is a bad design decision for a number of reasons. If they want this 'change' in place, do so only for the hardmode raid and adjust the rewards for completion accordingly. Let those 'hard mode' guys enjoy the big challenge of the random nature of the encounter as they so please. But don't do this across the board. The raid is actually hard enough here. A 10 percent completion rate says so. It doesn't need to be amped up in normal mode. That's not going provide any attraction what so ever for the casual Destiny player, it'll just do the opposite. People want to simply EXPERIENCE the content first before you amp up the difficulty and we're already in a situation where only a fraction of the playerbase can do that. In any normal big open world MMO style experience, raid content (whilst considered the pinnacle of PvE achievement) shouldn't dominate so much of the gameplay experience as it does in Destiny. This is simply testament to the fact that the core game experience is (right now) so shallow and under developed. So emphasis on the raid in Destiny is certainly higher than it would be for other games of similar nature and your Dev team needs to be painfully aware of the fact. If they continue to put bigger roadblocks for participation in place despite community protest, it's not going to have the assumed effect of giving the players something else to strive for an further stretch out that experience. It's just going drive them away. What your dev team needs to do here Deej is accept the current raid 'as is' and keep it unaltered except for the glitch mechanics (they need to be sorted and that's fine). Then use this as a benchmark for future content. People have a set expectation in place for VoG right now and if it's just going to be altered like this arbitarily, it won't satisfy the players. It's just going to piss them off. You're clearly hearing that already, so it really defies all logic that being such an unpopular decision, the Dev team are determined to go through with it anyway. Not a good PR strategy at all.
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17 RepliesDeej, the amount of work in this update makes it look like you have a team of maybe 5 people working 20 hour work weeks maintaining this game. I am a developer, and this entire patch just reeks of code smells. Bug: Every single boss in this game (except phogoth, for some reason) instantly dies if pushed into an area that would kill you, the guardian (even Sepiks, AND HE CAN FLY). How your team fixed it: "uhh lets add some special code to a single boss fight to prevent this from happening" A much more sane solution: 1) Bosses should actively path away from ledges. 2) In the event that players force bosses off ledges through use of physical force- like punching or rockets (not retarded sidestepping of grenades- because you should be sidestepping to a place that won't kill you), bosses reset. What your solution implies: One guy was told to make it impossible. He went in and wrote some of the hackiest code ever written to prevent just atheon from dying that way. Why your solution is bad: The design is fundamentally flawed, you should fix this now rather than later. Or do you want us to clear the Dark Beyond the same way? Every boss should be immune to fall deaths in the same way, in their base class (if you will). Intended Feature that you didn't like: Atheon teleports 3 furthest people from him at random Your Fix: add RNG Hilarious Code Smell: Atheon now frequently takes < 3 people into the portal. How messy is that teleportation code that it might choose 0,1, or 2 guys instead? Is it an index based random number with like what, TERRIBLE bounding? I cleared hard today. We cheesed the entire oracle phase of templar by standing on the spawn rocks and sniping the oracles (minus one guy who had to kill the innermost farthest right one by hiding inside the arena). We then cheesed templar by PUSHING HIM OFF THE SIDE. then we did atheon legit, but died quite a few times to the new bugs, not to organizational chaos (at least 4 of us know how to use the relic so its a non issue). Moreover, the fact that this patch literally only fixed a few lines (and you now it) of net code for those torublesome connections and included two really HACKY "fixes" to Atheon is universally disappointing. The game has been out for a month, you have NO class balance changes you want to push out? These things are more often than not numerical, and would take nothing more than a database (or global var) change to accomplish, assuming a sane architecture. Also, Warlocks being completely overpowered has yet to be addressed? Defender TItans and Sunsingers have essentially the same melee attack. Defender's however, does not have knockback. Moreover, defender's fist shield does NOT DISPLAY A TIMER?! WHO THE -blam!- DESIGNED THIS CLASS? Why do none of the defender abilities have timers? 99% of the weapons in this game are worthless. If you want raid weapons to be the best, thats fine, but why are exotic quests so difficult then? Do you LIKE having raid legendaries beat all the quest exotics? Is that intended? Do you think people enjoy crafting and leveling up items that sit in their bank unused forever because they offer nothing that the raid normal drop Confluence does? Overall, I would appreciate it if there was some evidence of tremendous work, as was originally promised, continuing to unfold in this game, live. Instead, we've seen that the DLC areas you're releasing in december are likely ALREADY in the game. And you're going to be releasing these, expecting me to believe in good faith that people actually tried to write code, when you can't even get the music + non-bullet sound FX in the ONLY raid in this game not to cut out constantly? Or to get oracle kills to register correctly 100% of the time? Yes, in case you were not aware, two more glaring bugs in the raid that have existed since it was out. 1) Oracles sometimes do not register as all being killed. I imagine you have a counter for oracle_deaths per wave of oracles (this happens in both atheon and templar fights). Sometimes after you kill the last oracle, i guess that counter doesn't increment, because your entire team SUCCUMBS TO BAD CODING PRACTICES. 2) The audio cuts out frequently in the templar fight. It happens everywhere in this game when shit hits the fan, but templar is pretty bad. You can no longer hear enemy cries, your own jumps, the boss' shots being fired... you can only hear your own bullets. This is very bad on so many levels. Oh and this doesn't happen in the raid exclusively, but does affect the entire game since Confluence is such a common weapon now. 3) Guns that do not typically have auto-fire but have abilities that give them this TEND TO RANDOMLY STOP AUTOFIRING. How the hell does this even happen? Is it like some kind of loop checking if i REALLY TRULY have the auto-fire perk unlocked every time I fire a single shot, and then somehow it returns false once and a while? One would think you could securely affirm state of auto-fire perk on reload. So you know, next time you guys want to take 2 weeks to release some changes, instead of limping to the barn with 2-10 lines of awkwardly specific code that break atheon and some vague network stabilization fixes, can you you know... actually demonstrate you care about this game being good by fixing these since-day-1-issues? Or is this a case of "the people who wrote all this difficult code no longer work here and we're completely -blam!-ed".
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3 RepliesJust did the Hard raid on weekly reset. Got the boots I needed to become lvl 30, preadyths revenge (which I still hadn't got), glass aspect ship and the Vex Mythoclast.......Thankyou very much.
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"the raid isn't suppose to be easy" I think you meant "you were beating the raid too fast so here's how we're gonna fix that"
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How about instead of fixing our "glitching" atheon off you fix the actual glitches of only 1 or 2 people being teleported and being teleported only to instantly be succumbed to the oracles. You guys at bungie are horrible and I'm ashamed to say y'all made halo. Y'all have went so far downhill you aren't even accredited as a decent gaming company anymore. Tl;dr for you lazy devs, Bungie sucks ass.
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3 RepliesPeople need to quit complaining about the glitches. It's not like Bungie purposely added them... Anyone who knows what it takes to program a video game of this scope knows that bugs can easily happen within all the coding, and there is simply no "fix all the bugs" button. Furthermore, the last raid I completed had 0 issues at Atheon, so it's very possible Bungie had similar luck when testing the hotfix. As for random teleporting, that is perfect. Destiny raids deserve to be difficult, and all Guardians should be on their toes.
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DeeJ, I will refer you to the ign video linked. http://trib.al/69TbopD Basically this "fix" has uncovered a ridiculous amount of bugs. There is a reddit thread or post dedicated solely to vault of glass bugs which need addressing IMMEDIATELY. I attempted to finish the hard raid from my checkpoint yesterday and it was literally impossible for us to complete it because of these bugs. I will summarize what happened to my character alone. 1. Used heavy ammo synthesis and it applied cooldown and didn't give me any ammo. This happened FIVE TIMES IN A ROW. 2. I took the relic when ported to the Venus/green side. My team shot the Minotaur with 2 rockets, I hit him with the jump smash 3-4 times and he did not die. This happened over TEN TIMES. How can you honestly think that adding arbitrary difficulty in the random teleportation is a good idea when there are invincible minotaurs which regen health every time they should die. Btw I'm level 30. 3. Splash damage in relic shield: I'm not sure if this is design to occur but holding the relic shield there were many instances where the team was still damaged by splash damage and in multiple circumstances people died, effectively ending our chances of completing it on that run. 4. Two players being teleported. There is no other way to put this than broken. There wasn't any way we could kill all the oracles and the enemies with only 2 players being teleported. 5. Being teleported into a detainment field and dieing. Again this happened more than once. We were either teleported and then detained or detained and then teleported to our death, because we left the detainment field. 6. Portal problems. This has been going on since the first time I did the raid. Walking through the portal and not going back to atheons room. Granted. This isn't as detrimental as some of the bugs but it cause a death or two in my teammates because of supplicants or a lack of cleanse These are only bugs that happened to my character, within 3 hours of attempting Atheon. We managed to get through the portals twice in one run only a handful of times. Other things happened to my teammates as well which I won't even mention. THIS NEEDS TO BE FIXED. STOP ADDING UNECESSARY MECHANICS AND FIX THE BLATANT PROBLEMS PLEASE. I'm not even going to try Atheon on hard anymore because it's so broken.
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2 RepliesOk then, let's talk about the glaring number of glitches that were completely overlooked? Many of these are not new and have been [i]real[/i] bugs instead of a "bug" that was fixed to increase difficulty. These have been brought up and posted about dozens of times all over the forums yet they did not even get a mention? I mean seriously, how can the developers possibly think it's ok to increase the difficulty before [i]actually[/i] "plugging the holes" of this raid that are literally game-breaking, wipe-incurring issues? Not even to mention many issues didn't even exist before you attempted to "fix" this activity. Honestly with this blatant disregard to actual player feedback and disillusioned developers that clearly don't care about fixing their game, I'm standing behind every single exploit in the Vault of Glass until the design team sees fit to make this proper. In fact, I'm encouraging it on every run I make because it's obvious to me the guys behind this care more about their precious ego and "protecting the difficulty" of their beloved content than seeing a majority of players enjoy that content and actually see the end game. That's all I have to say Bungie, but based on your track record, it will all be meaningless
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Normal wasn't to bad, but hard is COMPLETELY broken. You rushed the hot fix and pretty much ruined the fight for those of us who have never cheesed. Plus to add insult to injury he can STILL be pushed off. From over nerfing weapons to ignored bugs and a horrible loot system you guys are really letting your fans down. Please fix the game, it's like you're taking every step possible to make sure this franchise fails.
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The only problem that I have with the random teleportation, is that those 'carried' players may get teleported in and then mess things up.
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Sorry for not talking about the subject but what the hell is the thing with Iron banner Please tell us?
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[i]I was told "The Raid is never supposed to be easy."[/i] And who was that asshole who said that?
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9 Replies[b]"Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is 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a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and 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a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution" "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution"[/b]
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The bandage used to fix the bullet hole was too OP, so we are now using band-aids to fix things.
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I think instead of fixing the exploits and making things harder why not fix the bugs it has already to begin with - FIRST? Today in the raid I encountered all of them and some new ones: • Only 2 members would be teleported when all 6 are alive. • The most common bug being the portals taking you right back into the room you're trying to leave. This happened to me twice in a row - I left the past to go into the past to get sent right back into the past. • The relic shield turning off after initial activation despite 'times vengeance' being on and the ability is at full capacity, especially when it's on the last run to kill Atheon and you're whole team wipes because of the shield failure. • Or the new one I ran into today. NOBODY got teleported and the portals were both open and were black in color. I tried going through one of them to see what would happen and I got black static and team wipe. So how about you guys work on those things first before making things more complicated. People would be less inclined to exploit the game if the game wasn't glitching them past the point of frustration that they just rage quit.
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Was the best change to the raid honestly.
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I hate you.
