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Edited by Ishigami:
10/26/2014 10:41:41 PM
282
Difficulty: Is anyone even playing this game without exploits on harder settings (Nightfall, heroic etc.)?
I’m am serious here.
Is anyone playing the missions, strikes etc. on harder difficulty (Nightfall, lvl 28 Heroic etc.) the way they are “supposedly” designed?
I can’t fathom this. Everything is killing you in basically one hit (or one hit and a gust).
I mean how do you survive 4 Wizards and 3 Knights at the same time in the Summoning Pits while staying inside the room when everything needs just to look at you to kill you?
I don’t think I am a bad player.
If I do strike playlists I’m usually the one without any death while also having the most kills etc.
I’ve been beating nightfall strikes and heroics for weeks… just not “the way they are meant to be played”. (tm Nvidia)
To cut to the chase: I exploit the living crap out of the AI and terrain.
By BlameItOnBrown:
[quote]OP raises a good point, and I think many people may have missed it.
Is it actually possible to run the nightfall/weekly strikes by actually playing the strike the way it was intended it to be played?
Phogoth is a great example, because I don't know if it is actually possible to go into the final chamber with Phogoth on Nightfall, and not die once the high level minions spawn. Can anyone here say they have done it that way? If not, then isn't there something fundamentally wrong with the game's difficulty gradient?[/quote]
Maybe I worded it poorly but its basically this.
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2 RepliesTo be completely honest. I only exploit if I'm trying to solo a nightfall. That's the only time. Now, we did knock off the Templar so we could get to the secret chest. So if there is a chest that only appears if you knock the Templar off the map.... does that actually mean that Bungie want's that to happen? Yes, otherwise why would there be a secret chest for it. Anyway though, my point is that if you don't use the map and the spawning to your advantage when soloing you're not going to have a very good time running through some of those nightfall missions.
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I can't say I've done it. Hell, even with the exploits it can be difficult.
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Titan bubble makes it possible for me in heroics. The same is not true for Nightfalls because it's too risky with elemental damage.
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Edited by Haveroth: 10/28/2014 2:10:33 AMI've tried both ways to be honest. Can say it was extremely hard especially with my lvl 25 warlock getting 1 hit KO; but ive actually ended up finding best tactics and overcoming the challange
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I've done both. I've soloed them the valiant way and beat them. I've also died a lot in the process. I've also used hiding spots at times, especially when I'm pressed for time and don't want to die.
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I've done both.
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One way is alternating titan bubbles, with the bubbles set to spawn orbs when they take damage. So my bubble creates orbs to charge my buddy's super, and then vice versa. Pretty much a bubble up the whole time.
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3 RepliesUpgrade your gear and become a higher level = fighting chance
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People do them both ways, depending on their skill level. In my opinion one of the worst exploits is the ability to leave the game and rejoin to get around dying in places where teammates can't revive you. As long as people can do that I don't even see the point of not respawning people when they die after maybe one minute.
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2 RepliesThere are no exploits for the summoning pits. It's hard, you just have to be persistent and creative to win.
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Edited by Aurelia: 10/27/2014 9:56:17 PMI beat Phogorth 28 nightfall as level 25 with a 27 and 29 in week two of the game. I used EQ/WoW style pulling techniques and setup my team in a good position to pull mobs to and kill 'em. We had just figured out how to take advantage of void burn (that week's skull) to obliterate the wizards with Truth and we were so happy when we cleared that thing. So yes you can do it:) BTW: I differentiate between intelligent use of your environment vs cheese tactic spots where you can sit and kill something with virtually no risk to yourself. For example, pulling stuff into the shrieker room and killing it to clear the adds from the room before is fine but sitting in the room before and snipping the boss through the narrow angle is a cheese tactic (but not an exploit). An exploit is something like going under the platform in Archon Priest where it was pretty clear you aren't supposed to go inside but there was a hole in the geometry that you could squeeze through. Fighting the priest from the entrance area on the other hand is OK in my book. Your mileage may vary:)
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Only when I'm flying solo
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1 ReplyEdited by Mikim11: 10/27/2014 9:42:14 PMIt dependa on the strike and the modifiers. Last weeks sepkis was easy, soloed on the first try. But the archon priest few weeks ago and this weeks phogot are impossible to do it the legit way. So yes and no
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Summoning Pits is probably not a great litmus test for this if you include exploiting AI behavior because you pretty much need to understand how the adds spawn in waves as Phogoth's life drops even if you are otherwise legit. Being level 30 helps because any lower and you are pretty much OHK if anything comes into melee range with Lightswitch on.
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5 RepliesTo be honest (my purely subjective oppinion), the fights in Destiny are very bland and uninspired. These 'exploits' are what make them fun and interesting to me because they then become parody rather than the overly self serious things they are 'meant' to be. And when the concept of greater difficulty is boiled down to 'enemies kill you instantly, take negligible damage. Oh and you can't revive because -blam!- you that's why' I call that cheap and lazy. Now if these ET, darkness bastards want to get into a cheap tricks contest with me I say 'come at me bro!' I feel such sweet, sweet satisfaction from having phogoth impotently shoot at the wall whilst I take my sweet time giving him a death by 1000 cuts. And let's be honest, i'll get shards or coins whether I do this 'legit' or not. So I choose that which gives me a chuckle and makes the content feel like fun instead of a chore.
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Edited by Zuriax: 10/27/2014 9:52:33 PMYeah the last four nightfalls (except for Sepkis) I haven't done legitimately, it's impossible. Even playing solo most things will two hit you even with your skill tree set to max armor so playing with a full fire team is not hard; it's frustrating. Only really applies to the nightfall for me though since I tend to do the weekly heroic missions as intended.
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1 ReplyYes, you can go behind the rocks on the left side of the room and burn Phogoth down in about 2 minutes.
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1 ReplyIdk if exploiting is a better word than using. In any kind of challenge in life or any game, the best thing to do is find all of the resources you can use (or exploit, whatever). Work smarter not harder. Use your resources.
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2 Replies"Utilize your surroundings Guardian you can't win a war if you play by someone else's rules" DHG PairOfSocks 2014
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2 RepliesOP raises a good point, and I think many people may have missed it. Is it actually possible to run the nightfall/weekly strikes by actually playing the strike the way it was intended it to be played? Phogoth is a great example, because I don't know if it is actually possible to go into the final chamber with Phogoth on Nightfall, and not die once the high level minions spawn. Can anyone here say they have done it that way? If not, then isn't there something fundamentally wrong with the game's difficulty gradient?
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12 RepliesDestiny's difficulty is somewhat flawed. Instead of providing any challenge through clever tactics from enemies it punishes you with lots of insta-kills for actually being involved in combat. Judging by my experience Nightfalls don't really require you to play smart, they require you to stay way back and pick enemies off one by one. Go in, do some damage and quickly get out of the situation, wait for your shields to recharge, repeat. That's how most of my encounters turned out.
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Everything is doable but cheesing things make it easier, i hope that bungie actually pay attention and patch out all cheese spots in time for the patch regarding strikes. If its in the game im gonna abuse it, simple as that. Prime example is the templar fight, normal fight isnt all bad. But blocking ports requires more effort. Meanwhile if i cheese it i get a free chest because the boss wont teleport at all. I would love to have a private chat with DeeJ because i see so many flaws in designs, but i guess thats how most people feel hence the qq posts.
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1 ReplyIf its Void or Solar Burn, then yeah I do. I'll usually hang back a bit, but I still play it normally. Also, look at Mythic walkthroughs for Halo. You literally can't do it without running past everything. Hell, in Reach you had to use an exploit in one of the missions.
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Edited by Ghost: 10/27/2014 5:21:23 PMThe POSSIBLE rewards just aren't worth the effort required to beat them "correctly". The "difficulty" of Nightfall and level 28 Weekly Heroic is a sorry excuse for difficulty. Everything is really hard to kill but kills you instantly.. That's not difficult it's absurd. Throw in the possibility of being returned to orbit and you bet your ass I'll hide anyway I can to get the job done. Also I have no other friends who are on the same level with me skill wise or gear wise but I enjoy playing the game with them, so it would be not only impossible but extremely frustrating to try to complete these activities otherwise. EDIT: I did notice during the week when Winter's Run was the NF and WH I soloed both of them very easily, but as soon as you add one person to your FT the difficulty becomes insurmountable.
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It is absolutely possible just sooooo time consuming to solo. I usually always have clanmates on so the only thing i solo everyday is the daily. I have solo'd weekly 28 but its always more fun rolling with a fireteam ;-). That being said arc is a must for this weeks NF. I used planC & a leg arc sniper as well as an arc RL(the cure). Used vision of confluence to rip apart wizard shield than sniped. Exact opposite for knights. Also ice breaker is great to use on wizards in NF. I found the hardest part was the last wave in the middle part. Those wizards really hammer on you with arc blasts. Back up and pop in and out from the doorway. You can also drop back to top of stairs but dont go out to far or you'll cause a despawn.
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10 RepliesIt's mostly because of the way they tune their difficulty, especially for the nightfall. Why are Knights the ones that have shields on nightfall/Epic for Hive? If you look at the other ones it's: Harpies (Squishy), Shanks (Squishy), and Psions (Annoying, but ultimately squishy). All of them have no defensive abilities and relatively low damage Then you have Knights: They have an extra shield, do tons of damage, and have the second most health of all Hive units outside of bosses, as well as health regen. Then the burn: Sometimes the burn is utterly useless for the enemy, and sometimes it makes the game nearly impossible. Phogoth: Arc Burn. Wot? Wizards don't even stop shooting, how are you supposed to survive Arc Burn Wizards without either constantly moving or bursting them with rockets as soon as they spawn. Considering sniping is impossible in Phogoth's room due to size and you have a recipe for what is essentially harder (Non-cheese) than VoG Hard. Sepiks: Void Burn. Most of the adds do arc damage, only the boss does Void so it's really easy (Easy-to-dodge boss attack). Valus: Arc Burn. Literally the only arc damage in the mission is Psion wave afaik. So easy. Nexus: Solar Burn. This one is probably the third most difficult, but it's made easier thanks to the squishiness of the adds. Aksor: Every Burn. If not for cheese, this one would be the second hardest. Everything can two or three shot you, you have Lightswitch invisible melee Vandals, Aksor hits like a truck thanks to Solar Burn, and to top it off you have a respawning Mini-Sepiks and Ultra melee captains. You see the problem here? Instead of increasing difficulty with either: A) Mechanics B) More adds They opted for C) Tons of damage Which is problematic, because then you basically have to find a cheese spot or you will die repeatedly. Nightfall strikes are artificially hard instead of something like VoG where it's [i]actually[/i] hard.
