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Edited by GrinningPariah:
9/12/2014 8:26:46 AM
132
The Escapist review is harsher than any I've seen, and it's right: Destiny's writing sucks.
Destiny presents a fascinating universe, but the problem is that isn't properly expanded upon, and more importantly, it isn't relevant to moment by moment gameplay. Humanity met the traveler, had a golden age, then the Darkness came and ruined everything, now we're building up again. Okay, that's cool, but there's a problem here.
There's a ton to the background, but why am I fighting the Fallen? Or the Hive or the Vex or the Cabal? There is no [i]reason[/i] behind any of it that is readily apparent. We're know they're associated with "The Darkness" and we're supposed to hate them for it, but no part of that is made clear or expanded upon as far as I can tell. The enemy factions, too, have interesting concepts that are pretty undeveloped. The Hive, the Fallen, the Vex, the Cabal, they're all faceless and interchangeable, fundamentally the same mobs with a slightly different bag of tricks. They have no dialogue, no prominent characters, no apparent motivations. I don't feel righteous killing them, nor do I question my morality. It's like mowing the lawn, things come up which must be put down.
This problem is pervasive. Destiny's universe is compelling, but it fails to tie it in. It fails to explain itself, or even hint that there is a compelling explanation. People are loving the game right now, but I fear that without the lore getting hooks into them, we'll start to bleed players rapidly once everyone starts hitting max level and facing down the grind. Everything's too monotonous right now in PVE, and the story elements are obfuscated or held in cutscenes.
Bungie, if you're reading this, you need to get on this problem [i]right now[/i] before it's too late. You have the budget and user momentum to move fast, don't waste it. You need to get from your writing team a layered, long-term strategy for expansion of lore which gives the players a bit now because they're HUNGRY for it, but more over time, gradually teasing and then supplying bigger revelations. But more importantly, [b]you need to get your writers in the room with your designers/producers[/b], because right now it feels like they aren't talking. You need to start telling the story of Destiny not in grimoires or hidden features, but in the gameplay itself: Show, don't tell. You need to have enemies that talk, enemies with faces! You need to have missions with repercussions that are felt by the player instead of feeling like one-offs that never amount to anything. You need to show me [i]why[/i] the Fallen are different from the Vex, or from the Hive, or from the Cabal, how they're related to the Darkness, and why we should hate them on an individual basis.
You have an interesting thing going in the main story and I'm excited to see that through to its conclusion, but this is an MMO: Telling one main store is not sufficient. You need to [i]build a world[/i] and so far, Destiny has largely failed to do that.
English
#Destiny
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155 RepliesOkay people listen up. Clearly some things need to be explained here. 1. Destiny is using an "In Medias Res" narrative style. Which means the story starts in the middle of events and unfolds in BOTH directions. So the discovery process of the backstory (history) of your guardian and other elements of the story are as much a part of the narrative as the events that unfold in the present. IOW, much of the PLOT of the story will be the DISCOVERY of these things. 2. The collapse wasn't just a "bad war". It was a ELE---Extinction Level Event---that destroyed human civilzation (The Golden Age) and sent humanity into a SECOND Dark Age. Where all learning and history---the things you take for granted today---were LOST. Just like they were after the Fall of the Roman Empire. 3. Like the Renaissance of Europe, Humanity (as Destiny opens) is on the verge of a "Reawakening" of knowledge. As humanity pushes out beyond the safe confines ofthe City and starts to *rediscover* the knowledge that was lost to the Darkness and The Collapse. Just like the scholars of medieval Europe (The Speaker, The Cryptarch) had to rediscover the knowledge of Ancient Greece and Rome. 4. Your Guardian is like one of hte Knights of Arthur's Round Table and Camelot. In addition to defending Camelot, their mission was to protect civilization from the dark forces that surrounded and threatened it. In addition to pushing back and defating The Darkness, your job is to go out and help Humanit REDISCOVER the knowledge that it lost. Which is WHY Bungie is not giving you the information you are demanding this early. Because in the context of the narrative of the story THAT INFORMATION HAS BEEN LOST...and no one in the story has it. Part of your job as a Guardian is to out and TAKE BACK that knowledge Which is why..... [spoiler]....so many of the story missions revolve around your Guardian and Ghost raiding archives and other big collections of information. As well as why so many of the patrol missons (the beacons) involve you and your ghost obtaining smaller amounts of historical information for the Vanguard and various City factions and figures. [/spoiler] How do I know this? Simple. I've been paying attention...and I understand what it is Bungie is attempting to so. ..and I'm willing to be PATIENT enough to allow the story to unfold at the narrative pace Bungie feels is best. ..and Bungie has a LONG track record of getting the storytelling part of games right. Far longer than any of its would-be critics.
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Destiny is rated T so the writers must have been trying to please the 13 year olds. Pretty silly choice considering the average gamer is 31 years old. I finished the campaign knowing the same about the story as I knew when we started.
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4 RepliesYour grimoire cards add to the story! READ THEM!
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I cannot wait for Yahtzee to tear this game a new asshole.
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12 RepliesEdited by chubbz: 9/12/2014 7:17:36 PMFirst of all, The Escapist is garbage. I wouldn't trust them if they told me the sky was blue. They're the last people on Earth to call out anyone else's writing, especially in the light of their place in Gamergate. Second, and this point goes hand-in-hand with my first point, this is the first game in a 10-year game franchise. I understand that some people would rather have exposition up front for a clearer understanding of the world, but just look at the way your character started: a sudden yank back into the world of the living, from the world of the dead. Ghost even says, 'You're going to see alot of things you won't understand', and in that, he's also speaking to the player. We're not meant to understand this world right away. We're not supposed to know the entirety of what's going on. When you played Halo CE, did you understand the Covenant fully? Did you grasp *why* you were supposed to hate them? Or why they hated us? Did we get an explanation for what the Flood were, or who the Forerunners were, or where the Halos came from? No, we got all of that later. But in the beginning, there was just us, our AI companion, and things to shoot and kill. Much like it is in Destiny. This game is teaching us, for the time being, to not worry about knowing everything in the story to come. All we need to worry about right now is our place in it, and it seems alot of people are missing that.
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2 RepliesI finished the story a few nights ago and was very let down. I wasn't compelled at all. It's like we're left with the same amount of story that we got from the announcement of the game. Hell, I still don't know if "The Darkness" refers to the Fallen/Vex/etc. or to something else, the possible story points that rose from the lightless guardian, the queen, and the Vex's time travel stuff is just simply never referred to again. And once again, only a few lines from our guardian; relying on Dinklage's dry reading for 90% of the dialogue was not a good idea. And jeez, the final mission/cutscene didn't even feel like an ending. There wasn't even a sequel bait, and certainly no real payoff. What the hell kind of story was that, Bungie? All this time into world-building and nothing into a story. All poetry, no plot.
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7 Replies[quote]Destiny presents a fascinating universe, but the problem is that isn't properly expanded upon, and more importantly, it isn't relevant to moment by moment gameplay. Humanity met the traveler, had a golden age, then the Darkness came and ruined everything, now we're building up again. Okay, that's cool, but there's a problem here. There's a ton to the background, but why am I fighting the Fallen? Or the Hive or the Vex or the Cabal? There is no [i]reason[/i] behind any of it that is readily apparent. We're know they're associated with "The Darkness" and we're supposed to hate them for it, but no part of that is made clear or expanded upon as far as I can tell. The enemy factions, too, have interesting concepts that are pretty undeveloped. The Hive, the Fallen, the Vex, the Cabal, they're all faceless and interchangeable, fundamentally the same mobs with a slightly different bag of tricks. They have no dialogue, no prominent characters, no apparent motivations. I don't feel righteous killing them, nor do I question my morality. It's like mowing the lawn, things come up which must be put down. This problem is pervasive. Destiny's universe is compelling, but it fails to tie it in. It fails to explain itself, or even hint that there is a compelling explanation. People are loving the game right now, but I fear that without the lore getting hooks into them, we'll start to bleed players rapidly once everyone starts hitting max level and facing down the grind. Everything's too monotonous right now in PVE, and the story elements are obfuscated or held in cutscenes. Bungie, if you're reading this, you need to get on this problem [i]right now[/i] before it's too late. You have the budget and user momentum to move fast, don't waste it. You need to get from your writing team a layered, long-term strategy for expansion of lore which gives the players a bit now because they're HUNGRY for it, but more over time, gradually teasing and then supplying bigger revelations. But more importantly, [b]you need to get your writers in the room with your designers/producers[/b], because right now it feels like they aren't talking. You need to start telling the story of Destiny not in grimoires or hidden features, but in the gameplay itself: Show, don't tell. You need to have enemies that talk, enemies with faces! You need to have missions with repercussions that are felt by the player instead of feeling like one-offs that never amount to anything. You need to show me [i]why[/i] the Fallen are different from the Vex, or from the Hive, or from the Cabal, how they're related to the Darkness, and why we should hate them on an individual basis. You have an interesting thing going in the main story and I'm excited to see that through to its conclusion, but this is an MMO: Telling one main store is not sufficient. You need to [i]build a world[/i] and so far, Destiny has largely failed to do that.[/quote] Honestly I think the people who don't like the game have a very small intellect. So far great story you just have to pay attention and listen. Plus it plays like an mmo which is apparently too hard for console babbys.
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4 RepliesEdited by LeftHandofGawd: 9/12/2014 11:12:42 PMThis is one of the WORST stories I have ever come across. I dont even come to this forum. I came because it is so bad I had to take time out of my day to come and rant about it! Lets face it, the story is the most cliched BS they could come up with. I dont know that it can be salvaged. IF they had actually made a story, TOLD IT COHERENTLY, made ANYTHING MEANINGFUL, or TRIED to CONNECT the player to the characters or settings it might have been passable. Even then....As it is this is the most LAZY BS Ive seen in a long time, along with some AWFUL, AWFUL dialogue, which is made 10x worse as nothing is developed. So "The Darkness", dark references, light references, the speaker, The Traveler are cringe worthy cliche bad! My jaw hit the floor when I heard the dialogue of "I dont have time to explain. I dont even have time to explain why I dont have time to explain." Story summed up right there! Also The Vex, a evil so dark it hates other evil?" Wat? Are you kidding me? Oh yea, those robots with NO PERSONALITY, or meaning to the story other then they stand in your way to get to point A to B...Ok...This is middle school English short story assignment bad! Who ever wrote this, or anyone who signed off on the story should be fired! This thing is TRASH! Also fire the PR moron who outright lied about this abomination being able to stand next to LoTRs, or GoTs.....No one can honestly say that! NO ONE! OUTRIGHT INTENTIONAL LIE!
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3 RepliesIf you play most for story then you should be playing Telltale games, not shooters. You'll be happier.
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Didn't read, because reviews are are as dumb as the people who read them.
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Who the hell cares about reviews? The only time people even care is when it matches their opinions. Does anyone not remember how "bad" Reach was except it had great scores by reviewers?
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Well, I think (and hope) that this base game is like the preface to the whole Destiny universe. The developers promised years of content. This is like Chapter 1 IMO.
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Edited by TeslaDoc: 9/14/2014 5:48:25 AM[quote]Destiny presents a fascinating universe, but the problem is that isn't properly expanded upon, and more importantly, it isn't relevant to moment by moment gameplay. Humanity met the traveler, had a golden age, then the Darkness came and ruined everything, now we're building up again. Okay, that's cool, but there's a problem here. There's a ton to the background, but why am I fighting the Fallen? Or the Hive or the Vex or the Cabal? There is no [i]reason[/i] behind any of it that is readily apparent. We're know they're associated with "The Darkness" and we're supposed to hate them for it, but no part of that is made clear or expanded upon as far as I can tell. The enemy factions, too, have interesting concepts that are pretty undeveloped. The Hive, the Fallen, the Vex, the Cabal, they're all faceless and interchangeable, fundamentally the same mobs with a slightly different bag of tricks. They have no dialogue, no prominent characters, no apparent motivations. I don't feel righteous killing them, nor do I question my morality. It's like mowing the lawn, things come up which must be put down. This problem is pervasive. Destiny's universe is compelling, but it fails to tie it in. It fails to explain itself, or even hint that there is a compelling explanation. People are loving the game right now, but I fear that without the lore getting hooks into them, we'll start to bleed players rapidly once everyone starts hitting max level and facing down the grind. Everything's too monotonous right now in PVE, and the story elements are obfuscated or held in cutscenes. Bungie, if you're reading this, you need to get on this problem [i]right now[/i] before it's too late. You have the budget and user momentum to move fast, don't waste it. You need to get from your writing team a layered, long-term strategy for expansion of lore which gives the players a bit now because they're HUNGRY for it, but more over time, gradually teasing and then supplying bigger revelations. But more importantly, [b]you need to get your writers in the room with your designers/producers[/b], because right now it feels like they aren't talking. You need to start telling the story of Destiny not in grimoires or hidden features, but in the gameplay itself: Show, don't tell. You need to have enemies that talk, enemies with faces! You need to have missions with repercussions that are felt by the player instead of feeling like one-offs that never amount to anything. You need to show me [i]why[/i] the Fallen are different from the Vex, or from the Hive, or from the Cabal, how they're related to the Darkness, and why we should hate them on an individual basis. You have an interesting thing going in the main story and I'm excited to see that through to its conclusion, but this is an MMO: Telling one main store is not sufficient. You need to [i]build a world[/i] and so far, Destiny has largely failed to do that.[/quote] Well said. The only thing I don't love about this game is the lack of layered, deep, branching backstory (and better voice acting). Pulling it out of the grimoire cards is tough. Living it is way, way better. I want to get to a decision point and be forced to live with the consequences. I want to see and hear what the bad guys are all about and why they sometimes fight each other.
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5 RepliesWell Dark Souls didnt explain anything and you had to piece the story together with the lore. Maybe.... MAYBE... M A Y B E Destiny is a similar beast in terms of its lore, we need to look at item descriptions and grimiore cards etc
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Agree with all of this really. I tried to get into it but the story just wasn't immersive for me. Why do people keep criticizing reviews talking about the story, saying the game isn't finished yet and that DLC or updates will add more to the story. Unless you want them to wait years for the "full" game so they can review it, they can only review what they actually have, and the story is somewhat lackluster at this point in time.
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14 RepliesStory: humans get traveler, aliens hate traveler, humans protect traveler, aliens kill humans, humans fight back. Alien invasion, future technology, robot companion. WHAT MORE DO YOU NEED? Seriously, you people whine about everything. Given, dinosaurs would be a nice addition.
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4 Replies[quote]no dialogue[/quote] I'm sorry did you want the time traveling robots and the 2 ton space turtles to speak English?
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3 RepliesEdited by The 7th fall: 9/13/2014 2:46:08 AMTypical first day/week impression without thinking 'gee, this is Bungie, they like going into their story(even if its free/fee DLCs), not just stopping short'... Patience isn't much of a virtue anymore... Although SONY owes me $90 if they can't get a fix for my Guardian pre-order content...
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2 RepliesEdited by Xeytrix: 9/13/2014 6:04:08 PMA big part that got me was when we meet the queen and [spoiler]she had the fallen as pets.... our guardian was like "oh my god! Fallen as pets", and doesn't even bother to ask why or how.[/spoiler]
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2 RepliesDregs=Acolytes=Goblins=Legionaries Wizards=Captains=Minotaurs=Centurions Knights=Colossuses Shrieker=Cyclops Vandals=Hobgoblins Harpies=Shanks Psions are just pointless Servitors are retarded All the bosses are the same; shoot the weak point until they die. Phew, that's finally out of me.
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Most of this review is spot on. Read the whole thing.
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This is exactly how I feel about this game.
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Bottom Line: With its banal universe and flavorless style, Destiny is packed with content, but just ... well ... content. There's a great PvP mode, and the leveling system can be rewarding, but nonetheless this is a pretty, rock-solid, ultimately pedestrian product. Recommendation: If you want a stable and populated FPS MMO, this will do the job with minimal fuss. For all my complaints, I did waste a lot of time with it, and will likely continue to do so, so it's indeed doing something to hook folks. I wouldn't buy into the hysterical hype though. [spoiler]he liked it, he just doesn't like gargle spunk wee wee[/spoiler] [spoiler]Thank god for him[/spoiler]
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6 RepliesEdited by TheDirtiestBoo: 9/13/2014 6:48:30 PMI sadly have to agree. I want to build a relationship with Ghost, like we did with Cortana (sorry I HAVE to compare to halo for this one, we all know halos story was amazing). But we barely talk. In fact, your characters first words to him are "will it fly?" about the ship. Not Who/what are you? Where am I? What is going on? Why should i trust you? Also, in the tower, we lack any sort of character depth with all the NPCs. Maybe have a talk option where you can find out small pieces of story that will lend to player enthusiasm. I love the strike missions, but it feels slightly hollow to just "go there, that dude is evil, murder him all over the place". If we could talk to our vanguard class quartermaster, lets say, about each of the races, and find out like, "oh i had distant relatives on mars... before the cabal..." or something about the quartermaster, then the next time i went on a mars strike, i would have some scope of why i am doing this, or what it's overall effect is. Really, and truely, IMO, i just think they need 2--3 things to fix this whole business. 1) make cutscenes that tell us what is going on, or like some interaction between us and our best friend Ghost. Maybe they give us some insight into how really dire the situation is. 2) The ability to talk to NPCs for their story and more info about how our universe is. This give much needed emotional motivation to us to fight the darkness.
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1 ReplyEdited by P45K: 9/13/2014 2:06:42 PMfor me, the story is the most lacking aspect. Peter Dinklage, i love his work, but he really just seemed to phone this shit in, and really, the plot he's shared so far with me, (i only just reached Venus) has been very basic, and his lines are pretty terrible mostly. he moves from clear disinterest to pantomime levels of over-excitement, which really doesn't draw me in in the slightest. i'm all for a story with mystery and working towards revelations, but so far everything plot-wise is just so damn vague. i never really connected with Master Chief, but Cortana did a great job connecting me to that world, but here, i'm having a lotta fun out in the world, but the story is really lacking at this point. contrary to popular belief, a great many Bungie fans are invested in their games' stories and characters (why i'm such a fan of Halo 2 & Reach), it's not all about the shooty bang bang stuff all the time, and i really do hope more story elements are brought to the fore in Destiny.
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2 RepliesRead the Grimiore, you'll understand
